Long Rest Times Then Decreasing Them Later

This past 3-4 months I have been experimenting with the way I do foundation sessions.

Before GST I gravitated towards power-lifting and I respond very well to long rest times.  I know in the book it says to use the mobility as rest only, but I have been taking 5 minutes rest in-between sets of statics because I have been struggling with longer hold times.  In the rest times I have been super-setting with other exercises or mobility - all course material though be it Stretch, Foundation or Handstand.

Anyway my workouts looked a bit like this, using F-4 as an example:

Tuck Planche 30s

Swivel Hips 5r

Hollow Hold 60s

Shoulder Bridge 30s

120s rest (I do 30s prone capsules, 30s cat stretch, 30s chicken wing & 10 bent arm prone reps here)

(repeat 5 times)

Bent Arm Chin Hang 60s

Overgrip Bent Pull 5r

HeSPU 5r

Clasped Static 30s

120s rest  (I do 30s prone capsules, 30s cat stretch, 30s chicken wing &10 bent arm prone reps here)

(repeat 5 times)

Bent Arm Straddle Planche Double Leg Extensions 5r

SAC1 5r

(repeat 5 times)

doing it like this has allowed me to work up to 5*60 on hollow holds way way faster than if I tried to train for endurance at the same time with short rests like previously.  I have also found that my HeSPU balance became much better when I just focused on strength and not balance: I just allowed myself to hit the wall but never use it as a crutch and by the time I got to 5*5 my balance had increased dramatically.  The extra rest as well I found allowed me to get stronger in statics nearly every workout.  For example tuck planche I could most of the time add 2-3 seconds to most if not all 5 sets every workout and I went from 4*24 bent arm chin hangs to 5*60 in a month.

Now what I am doing is taking each exercise I've got the times for and doing them as per the book with increased rest before the rest of the workout e.g:

Hollow Body Hold 60s > Shoulder Bridge 30s > 4min 30s Rest

then every workout reducing the rest down by 30s or more if I feel like I can.  I'm down to 3min rest including IM on HBH now and this has been much much more efficient for me than trying to get the rest times at the same time as working up the hold times.

My question is this: if I am going to train this way in future, which I think I will for longer statics as previously it was taking me 6 months on average to get through most FL progressions!, then is there really a point in decreasing my rest times once I've got the hold times down?

So for example I would just move straight on to Open Planche and Hollow Body Rocks, complete those two in the same fashion and then wait to decrease the rest times until I get to an exercise with less time under tension such as Open Planche Single Leg Extensions and Body Levers, at which point I would make sure I got Open Planche for mastery no rest other than the IM along with the Bent Arm Planche work as the mobility and HBR for mastery with only the IM as rest.

I just find that long rests allow me to increase strength much quicker and trying to gain strength and endurance at the same time takes much longer than doing only strength then adding endurance...  Thoughts?

Just to piggyback: The course material says "no giant super sets" but I really like super setting RC and HBP. Thoughts?

Murray Truelove said:

Just to piggyback: The course material says "no giant super sets" but I really like super setting RC and HBP. Thoughts?

I've done it when I'm so ill that I can't face doing the session any other way but I can see how it would lead to a false sense of security if done too regularly.

The idea was to get the times up first and then work on decreasing the rest times until say,  using HBH as an example, I went from taking 5min rest to just the 30s as prescribed for the shoulder bridge IM.

I wouldn't be moving on to the next exercise until I completed mastery properly - I would just get there by first increasing strength to the point where I could get the hold times and then working on work capacity rather than both at the same time.

I found I just kept repeating the same training block multiple times on that hold so I thought if I did it like this first and then tried the training block again with the proper rest interval & IM from where I was before (4*24, 4*36, 5*36) for hollow that I would pass the last week which I kept having to repeat because when I tried 4*48 and then 4*60 I would always fail on the 2nd set of 60 and have to go back to 4*24, 4*36, 5*36 again.

If training strength first is not a good idea ( I can see why now if I am not training work capacity at all this way ) then I guess the other alternative would be to break up the template into something like:

4*24, 4*30, 5*30, 5*15
4*36 4*42 5*42 5*21
4*48 4*54 5*54 5*27
4*60 4*60 5*60 5*30

Properly - while using proper rest times with proper IM and no supersets - done in under 8 minutes on the mastery set.

Otherwise I am just repeating and repeating the same training block.  I just think to myself - three years and I'm not done with FL F1 yet - that can't be right.  And I think it's because I have just been repeating training blocks again and again, stopping and not giving enough stimulus to reach the next level - it's frustrating to say the least lol

Just FYI, Coach has endorsed a similar approach before here:

https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/15447-hbppe16-ratio-between-goodbad-reps/?p=178846 )

I can tell with certainty that some of the progression table with prescribed rests will not work for most untrained adults, or even most trained people but not in gymnastics. For the heavier guys it will be never ending story. For example I noticed that strong individuals  (already able to do about 50 kipping pull ups) exceeding 80 kg of weight, find it impossible to progress RC/PE 6 with this ridicules 5 rep mobility exercise rest. The jumps in the progression table are too big and not enough rest to make a progress. You'll make much quicker gains making this cycle longer and resting more between sets. 

I exceed 80kg of weight, have reasonable pullups (although I've never tried kipping I must admit) and passed RC/PE6. I wouldn't desribe myself as strong now, let alone before I got into the swing of Foundation work. Now I am on the final RC element and just got my first double rope lap, hoping to get 2 or 3 in today's workout; I have always just followed the rx templates. Notably in no other workout than GST do I begin to get tired, and rarely break a sweat

I got to 5x48s with chin hangs before I had to start adding more rest time. Got to 5x60s in 30 weeks and couldn't be bothered to get the rest time to Rx.

I can already do legless rope climbs and I'm only on PE9, definitely one of the easiest Foundation goals as it doesn't require anything besides strength.

Murray Truelove said:

I got to 5x48s with chin hangs before I had to start adding more rest time. Got to 5x60s in 30 weeks and couldn't be bothered to get the rest time to Rx.

I can already do legless rope climbs and I'm only on PE9, definitely one of the easiest Foundation goals as it doesn't require anything besides strength.

I just did 5x60s today for the first time and my rest time has not been 5s, but more like 3 minutes. I did this almost without planning it that way, but just because the exercise got harder and harder for me, and this was a psychological prop I used to help me cope with it.

Even with the increased rest time, whereas previously a 40s chin hang felt like a real workout, I can now barely feel it. In the next 3 weeks I'm going to sequentially lower the rest time to about 1 minute while still doing 5x60s. If I can do it, I'll lower the rest time to 45s and call it a day.

The mobility prescribed between the hangs means your active rest times shouldn't last longer than 20-25 seconds. I am really impressed by a lot of people boasting how smooth their progress with this exercise is. I must be living among very weak people because I am yet to see a single guy who starts his journey with gymnastics and completes it in one or two cycles.

~Atticus said:

I just did 5x60s today for the first time and my rest time has not been 5s, but more like 3 minutes. I did this almost without planning it that way, but just because the exercise got harder and harder for me, and this was a psychological prop I used to help me cope with it.

Even with the increased rest time, whereas previously a 40s chin hang felt like a real workout, I can now barely feel it. In the next 3 weeks I'm going to sequentially lower the rest time to about 1 minute while still doing 5x60s. If I can do it, I'll lower the rest time to 45s and call it a day.

I got to 1 minute (if I remember correctly) between finishing the IM and starting the PE, although this was normally after the 2nd or 3rd set.

I would be very interested to see anyones Rx video.

Using the 30s template definitely made making progress more consistent.

I think you have to consider that every individual has different genetics and therefore also muscle composition; and will therefore benefit from slightly different methods of training.

And a lot of elements of foundation are definitely strength elements that require 2-3 minutes rest between sets. But obviously you should always train with a clock and try to accomplish your work in as small time frame as possible.