HS/PE4 form check

Hello !

 

This is with 1.25kg, hands slightly off the ground (is it good for mastery?) .

 

 

This is without weight and hands brushing the ground .

 

 

Is my form good?

 

Thank you !

looks good, how's the iM?

Keilani Gutierrez said:

looks good, how's the iM?

Thank you Keilani . The iM is fine, working on it. I'm just back from a little shoulder pain that set me back in handstand and bridge work, so now I'm building it up and working on it slowly and safely.

Is the weight I'm using here is good for mastery (1.25kg)? What is the mastery weight for the iM?

The mastery should be with 7-8 kg as the vast majority of HS1 IM's. the reason of this weight is being able to open the shoulders while lats are still squeezed. 

Alessandro Mainente said:

The mastery should be with 7-8 kg as the vast majority of HS1 IM's. the reason of this weight is being able to open the shoulders while lats are still squeezed. 

Why is this important information not included in any of the course articles or focus points?

Alessandro Mainente said:

The mastery should be with 7-8 kg as the vast majority of HS1 IM's. the reason of this weight is being able to open the shoulders while lats are still squeezed. 

You also recently said that HS1 PE 2 iM mastery is 7-8 kg while it was earlier being said that 2.5 kg was the minimum for mastery.

 

I feel like 7-8 kg would stall people unnecessarily because some people already spend over a year of time on that iM. Adding that extra weight might be 2 years more where you have to stay at headstand still.

 

What are your thoughts on this?

The time that something takes to be mastered is proportional to the time spent on neglecting this training aspect.

If someone wants my approval on a certain elements he must show It to me. I have a clients who did front lever hold and side lever for 3 years. He was a monster with 40+ seconds fl. Now he wants handstand and we are on Hs pe1 since February with no weight on IM. I do not judge people choice. If you want something do your strength work, do your stretch and your mobility. I've never changed my approach basing on the time people or athletes stayed on certain element.

In life and in sport it is not the minimum that leads to success.

Alessandro Mainente said:

The time that something takes to be mastered is proportional to the time spent on neglecting this training aspect.

If someone wants my approval on a certain elements he must show It to me. I have a clients who did front lever hold and side lever for 3 years. He was a monster with 40+ seconds fl. Now he wants handstand and we are on Hs pe1 since February with no weight on IM. I do not judge people choice. If you want something do your strength work, do your stretch and your mobility. I've never changed my approach basing on the time people or athletes stayed on certain element.

In life and in sport it is not the minimum that leads to success.

I understand. My plan is to keep refining PE 2 iM after 2.5 kg mastery for manna work.

 

Your approach with the 7-8 kg for mastery of the iM, is it in consensus with GB? Forgive me for asking but it seems like a rather drastic and very important change of opinion to leave in a form check thread.

maybe there is a little bit of confusion.

For the most part of HS IM:

-you need to train them with AT LEAST 2 kg. this does not mean that the mastery is with 2 kg but that you do not have to use a free wood bar because for average of people is not conditioning. 

-mastery is with 6-8 kg for the IM's. exception for the prone shoulders flexion where a good number is 2-3 kg.

-as long therm goal the dislocates should be worked up to 15-20 kg.

 

On body health plays a big role the muscles balance. advanced rings strength is basically all pushing. 2-3 kg for extension does not represent a decent balance with all the pushing movement. consider manna as a full bodyweight extension. and it is considered the perfect exercise to balance anterior tension with posterior chain. 2-3 kg wood bar extension is too less.

Alessandro Mainente said:

maybe there is a little bit of confusion.

For the most part of HS IM:

-you need to train them with AT LEAST 2 kg. this does not mean that the mastery is with 2 kg but that you do not have to use a free wood bar because for average of people is not conditioning. 

-mastery is with 6-8 kg for the IM's. exception for the prone shoulders flexion where a good number is 2-3 kg.

-as long therm goal the dislocates should be worked up to 15-20 kg.

 

On body health plays a big role the muscles balance. advanced rings strength is basically all pushing. 2-3 kg for extension does not represent a decent balance with all the pushing movement. consider manna as a full bodyweight extension. and it is considered the perfect exercise to balance anterior tension with posterior chain. 2-3 kg wood bar extension is too less.

I understand your reasoning and I tend to agree that shoulder extension strength should be a focus point as a counter balance for shoulder flexion and pushing movements.

 

I want this clarified because last time I asked, 6 months ago approximately, I was told differently, and I also remember a lot of threads saying that mastery is 2.5 kg, but one should continue until hitting 20 kg.

 

Thread:

 

https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/20355-new-to-h1-a-couple-of-questions/

 

It could really be nice if we could have your advice verified and if that happens have it stick'ied because I believe very few people here worked up to 7-8 kg before moving on to PE 3.

Zach Armijo said:

Alex,

 

To be fair, your answered question in the old thread was not of an authoritative figure on the forums.

 

I know people can regurgitate what the Moderators or Coaches say, but if you are in doubt between a Moderator and a student, well....

 

Consider for HS iMs: 5lb weight with shoulder width Mastery standards. How far you take them after that is up to you. But I would list 5lbs as the minimum.

 

You will see this with Xiopengs. People Either master them at 5lbs or if they are smart, will take them as high as they can build them.

Thank you for confirming the fact that 5lb (2.5 kg) still is mastery. It was a bit unclear.

 

I was in doubt because, well, it seemed like 7-8 kg was the new minimum for mastery of the iMs which seemed like a huge change of paradigms.

 

Perhaps the misunderstanding arose because of language barriers, nevertheless problem is solved.

Zach Armijo said:

Alex,

To be fair, your answered question in the old thread was not of an authoritative figure on the forums.

I know people can regurgitate what the Moderators or Coaches say, but if you are in doubt between a Moderator and a student, well....

Consider for HS iMs: 5lb weight with shoulder width Mastery standards. How far you take them after that is up to you. But I would list 5lbs as the minimum.

You will see this with Xiopengs. People Either master them at 5lbs or if they are smart, will take them as high as they can build them.

So after this important discussion in my form check thread, I understand that most of HS iM's mastery weight is 2.5 kg and they should be worked after mastery to increase the weight. I didn't understand what is the mastery weight for HS/PE4.. Is it 6-8 kg as Alessandro said?

Alessandro Mainente said:

The time that something takes to be mastered is proportional to the time spent on neglecting this training aspect.

If someone wants my approval on a certain elements he must show It to me. I have a clients who did front lever hold and side lever for 3 years. He was a monster with 40+ seconds fl. Now he wants handstand and we are on Hs pe1 since February with no weight on IM. I do not judge people choice. If you want something do your strength work, do your stretch and your mobility. I've never changed my approach basing on the time people or athletes stayed on certain element.

In life and in sport it is not the minimum that leads to success.

My son is very young at 12, and so he was wondering what sort of mastery weight he should work towards. 5 pounds maybe?

Okay, thanks. He was just curious if it might be unhealthy to do high weights. So he can move on but still advance the weight on previous IMs?

Zach Armijo said:

Mastery is 5lbs, but one would be a fool to stop the HS iMs there....

How much should be worked towards on the iM, over the minimum 5lbs?

What is the ideal maatery weight for PE4 himself?