FL/PE2 Help!

FL/Pe2 has been a process of one step forward, and two steps back. I can hack away at all of the other elements fine. They're taking time sure, but I can see incremental, even if microscopic, improvement with them. With these rocks, though, I haven't yet been able to crack 36 reps; and it's been months on block 2. One week I can nab 4x36 fine, then 4.5x36 (meaning my form breaks down in the last set), and then in other weeks even 2 sets of 36 reps seems difficult. Does anyone have any ideas or tips on this? I can usually micromanage the process and get the hand of it myself through working it out, but this move proves to be elusive.

I know that it's said to drop down a block in this case, but I can handle 4x18 or even 5x24 fine. After 30 reps things seem to change biomechanically for me. 

Thanks in advance.

I used Zack's strategy to break some plateus on my training.

https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/19427-my-current-focus-hbppe2/page-5?hl=%20half%20%20the%20%20volume

Daniel, I decided that form was my problem, regressed to PE1, and found that my form on PE1 was falling apart in the last sets. I'm working to correct that now.

Hi Daniel,

How many days per week are you practicing your FL progressions? By no means should you be spending months on the same sets and reps for bent hollow body rocks. Perhaps up the frequency, or maybe you just need to really dig deep and fight through the set (which is much safer to do on core movements than, say, bent-arm strength elements).

Best,

Chris

In addition to Zachs amazingly motivational advice. Damn how I love/hate the first FL progressions.

My approach to this is simple, if I am stuck on an element for more than 6 months, the reason is either motivation or mobility.

I now currently adhere to the following prescription based on collected advice from the GB forum:

1. Always have it first in your workout (brain is fully charged).

2. Do some _easy_ sets on off days (make that amnesic brain remember).

3. Film yourself each workout (verify your focus).

(4. If a particular workout feels hard, I double the number of sets and do max each to annoy myself, assuming it is an easy exercise and safe of course)

With regards to mobility, since the stretch course was released most of my mobility deficits will be addressed by that and the iMs. Bonus: Marks psoas release before the FL workout feels great.

Remember: "Fight! Focus! Fight!" :-)

As Zach says, a shock is sometimes what does it. Sometimes it's just putting it in context; 5x60 doesn't seem so bad after a set or so of 100

:D"Sometimes you just have to suck it the f**k up and keep going". -Zach

I usually have some Zach quotes in my head while training specific elements.  This will definitely be my FL/PE2 theme!

Ryan

Very well. I mean, I warm up with 2-3 sets of FL/PE1 (at either 84 and 60 seconds, or 60 seconds and 36 seconds), and these aren't too hard. They stimulate the core, as they should, but the form is fine. Suck it the f' up, I will, in addition to throwing it into the mix today and Thursday. I do foundations 3-days a week, so I end up doing FL progressions (along with every progression for that matter) 1-2 times per week, depending on which workout it is. If I do more than that, due to the sheer volume of exercises in GB (Foundations, Handstand, and Stretch Series), I find that I don't recover well enough before my next workout.

As a further note, is the core meant to push and pull the body through the rock or is it intended to purely hold the body line as the torso rocks through the reps?

As an addition, I will take note of the suck it the f--- up mentality in regards of MN/PE2 and RC/PE1, which I am also still having a bit of trouble with due to the whole form breakdown, muscle burning sensation. 'Breaking the body', so to speak is the hump I need to get over. Recognizing how to maintain good form amidst shaking and cramping is something I'll need to work on (and will work on). I'll report back in a few weeks to see how things progress. 

Just a reminder, no one is saying you are doing anything wrong per se. Just pointing out that, as I like to say, when the body interprets a panic / failure moment and the mind takes as a sticking/give up point, they are not always in possession of all the facts. Zach's stretching example is perfect illustration of this.

I find deload weeks occasionally work similarly. I struggled for a long time, a couple years, to get my first full HSPU. I've steadily rehabbed a shoulder impingement over the last few months, and concurrently steadily added reps, but kept getting stuck at 3. I have been spinning my wheels on that since May or June, as a couple reps came fast after the first one.

A 'deload+' week, in which I had vaccinations so I had to miss my Friday F7 workout, gave me the mental reset enough to decide to ignore whatever I had done before on the Monday after, and discovered the reps just kept coming. I had never done more than 3 before, but I put out a couple sets of 6 and 3 more of 5 with form I am pleased with. It's Wednesday now and I've done 5x full HSPU in my warmup each day without any strain at all, which literally a week ago I would have called unthinkable.

I find it makes a big difference to make the effort to clean your slate coming into a new cycle. Sometimes I even regard it, as the rep target drops and hitting the week 1/5/9 is not an issue, as a test / signpost just to see how many reps I am really capable of. I like tests and challenges so seeing each week this way makes it easier for me to lift to hit the week's prescription

Wow Jon.  Well appreciated. I was able to glean some serious perspective change from your comments;  especially in your last paragraph!

Daniel:  I definitely feel you on this one, as I'm on a similar week of FL/PE2 as you.  I'd like to take a little different angle... You are working maybe too hard (Ahhhh, I can hear everyone cursing right now) and I would like to share a comment about warm up specifically as a beginner and what I mean.   I recently tried using FL/PE1 60s hold as a warm up and tried to somehow apply the course instructions for warm up scheme, even though I am in the very beginning stages of working with a weak core .  What happened was my final reps where taxing fairly quickly.  I was warming up for 60-90s holds then doing less than 60s of rocks.  Do you see where I'm getting at?  I was reminded that if we are working in PE1 and PE2 territory, our core endurance is honestly pretty weak and sometimes the previous element as a warm up may be more challenging than it appears.  

WARM UP

I noticed you mentioned sometimes you are warming up with 144 seconds of holds (spread out in a couple sets), then the actual PE2 work for a 4x36s,(this takes roughly 160 seconds).  This means almost half of your core strength work is being done in the warm up.  I know you mentioned the warm up does not feel very hard, but I wonder if this is taxing your final reps as you work really hard in progressing through bloc 2?

What I did is dropped the warm up for this element only.  Or, even backed off the warm up to some pelvic tilts in supine to get the appropriate muscles thinking.  I felt this lighter warm up allowed the form to be a little better towards the end of the target reps during the actual FL/PE2 work in bloc 2.

Have you tried your usual warm up for other elements, but not warming up for this FL/PE2 only?, then applying the coaches advice for the actual PE2 work?

Hope you don't mind me sharing me thoughts from a beginner's perspective.

Best of Luck as I'm right there next to ya,

Ryan

Well, hard work, sometimes very hard work, is absolutely necessary in any endeavour, but I meant more about re assessing what you think is hard. I am in no way suggesting people should take it easy because training is serious business and you reap what you sow

Its easy to get into that habit of stopping at a certain point and ime its been most often a mental thing to break plateaus, provided recovery is in place of course. A day off extra as I had was enough to give me a combination of blank slate and restlessness to do it without expecting to hit a sticking point at 3 and call it a day.

Then I derailed the thread a little to crow about my hspu. I think I started with a legit point, but also wanted an excuse to tell everyone about that because I am proud

I hear what you're saying Ryan, and honestly, beyond my legs most of the elements are pretty static in their development. The SLS series is the only one where each week I feel stronger and more mobile. I just started SLS/PE3 one or two blocks ago, and I can almost manage the -im fully and I'm on the 3rd block of the PE, no sweat. My ROM needs to improve there, but anyways, my point being that in terms of a warm-up I don't have much of one since all the elements I train on the FL days are still at PE1. My shoulders and my hips are points of very profound frustration, so I've got a lot of components I'm trying to shore up and fix as best and as quickly as I can. While not injuring myself in the process (which I sort of happened to do at one point with my sternum, and another with my shoulder -- but those are unrelated topics).

I've been giving the half reps, half volume, but more frequently a-go this week as I've been doing 2-3 sets of FL/PE2 for 24 reps every day. I did FL/PE2 Monday and will do so again tomorrow. I will give your piece of advice a shot, Ryan, and see if that reserves a bit more in my tank to crank out the 36 which I am try to break past. I will let you all know how it goes.

I've been going through a similar experience with this element... a few steps forward, a few steps back - seemingly.

One thing I've been learning (and I'm only a year into my GB journey, so I'm far from being an expert ) is that progress can't be measured in numbers alone.

I was up to 4x60 rocks at one point, and then realized that my form was sub-par and needed improvement. When I smoothed out my roll, my numbers went WAY down to barely being able to do 5x24. By the standard of numbers, I regressed, but really I was progressing because my form got way better, and conceivably, the exercise got much harder.

Now I've just completed 4x36 with (what I think is) good form, and even though that's not even close to 4x60, I still feel as though my core is getting much stronger and I have progressed.

The same thing has happened in my progressions through HBP/PE2 ..... every time my form improves, the exercise feels harder, and my numbers regress a little, but I've learned that this is still progress if my form is improving.

Lastly, have you tried making smaller progressions? I've had a lot of success doing the following progressions, each for a week at a time:

24,24,24,24,24

30,30,24,24,24

30,30,30,30,

30,30,30,30,30

36,36,30,23

36,36,30,30

36,36,36,36

It's been a little slow-going, but I still feel like I'm making progress each workout.

Not sure if any of that is helpful, but that's been my experience

Cam

Cameron Williams said:

I've been going through a similar experience with this element... a few steps forward, a few steps back - seemingly.

 

One thing I've been learning (and I'm only a year into my GB journey, so I'm far from being an expert ) is that progress can't be measured in numbers alone.

 

I was up to 4x60 rocks at one point, and then realized that my form was sub-par and needed improvement. When I smoothed out my roll, my numbers went WAY down to barely being able to do 5x24. By the standard of numbers, I regressed, but really I was progressing because my form got way better, and conceivably, the exercise got much harder.

 

Now I've just completed 4x36 with (what I think is) good form, and even though that's not even close to 4x60, I still feel as though my core is getting much stronger and I have progressed.

 

The same thing has happened in my progressions through HBP/PE2 ..... every time my form improves, the exercise feels harder, and my numbers regress a little, but I've learned that this is still progress if my form is improving.

 

Lastly, have you tried making smaller progressions? I've had a lot of success doing the following progressions, each for a week at a time:

 

24,24,24,24,24

30,30,24,24,24

30,30,30,30,

30,30,30,30,30

36,36,30,23

36,36,30,30

36,36,36,36

 

It's been a little slow-going, but I still feel like I'm making progress each workout.

 

Not sure if any of that is helpful, but that's been my experience

 

Cam

I'm doing a similar approach in moving from 1 to 1.5 lap 'sets' in rope climb.