To Foundation or not to Foundation?

Hello everyone,

So I've been putting a lot of thinking into whether or not to get the Foundation courses lately and I really can't decide. I know there is a lot of Coach's knowledge to be gained through the courses, and plenty of gains to be made. However, I also feel like there will be a fair bit that I have already "mastered". I'm sure I haven't fully mastered them, and while some are to your standards, I know some won't be. I started off training street workout, so form wasn't something very emphasized. However now that I'm aware of what good form is, I'm trying to improve all of my strength moves form-wise.

My biggest concern is spending my money on the Foundations when all I really need is a push in the right direction and advice. I understand that a lot of the course is aimed at fixing imbalances found in adults. However, I'm 17 and have been active my entire life so many of those imbalances aren't present in me, and those that are, I am now working on. My mobility is steadily increasing and I'm using every resource I have to take it even further. My pancake and middle/side split need a lot of work, I'm getting pretty close to front splits, my pike has improved loads (my chest almost reaches my chest and can withstand weight in that position), and my shoulder flexion mobility (which is not bad itself, and also steadily improving) is the only thing keeping me from a perfect thoracic bridge (though I feel a lot of bend in my lower back, even though it isn't really evident when photographed).

As for strength, I can do an almost perfect form one legged planche. My form is constantly improving, however the hollow shape insists on evading me. I would have a straddle planche but I've found that I have an immense strength deficit in my gluteus medius that needs to be addressed immediately (not exactly sure how to approach that though). My handstand continues to improve and a perfect line has almost been obtained, if not already obtained (I don't always take photos of my form that often). Muscle-ups have been mastered, slow muscle-up transitions are in progress. While I had a full front lever, I stopped training it and lost it. I'm currently at the straddle front lever making steady progress back to my full. Shoulder extension strength needs to be addressed, I've got plenty of time to work on my manna, but the journey has began. Single-leg squat is, in my opinion, mastered. I can do 40 single leg squats for sets (alternating, so 20 on each leg). Hollow body press is in the making, I have to get it consistent and increase the rep range (currently 2-3 in a row is my max). I can do a straddle press to handstand, but not with the beautiful perfection I aspire for (Quentin Sanchez level perfection). I've never actually had the opportunity to do a rope climb do to the absence of a rope, but I've achieved the one arm pullup in the past (decided I didn't like it) and I do plenty of archer pullups on the rings. I can do a pretty nice (in my opinion) elbow assisted IC, as you can see in my profile picture, with fair ease. I can easily do a back lever and back lever pullout, never had any issues with my shoulder or elbow. Lastly, my side lever is pretty solid, pictures can be provided.

I'm sure you will all question my form and mastery of these movements, and I'm sure many of them won't quite fit your expectations. However, I'm constantly trying to improve and perfect them through the training of basics and practice of the movement themselves combined. I simply haven't focused on form long enough to achieve these perfect positions. The main thing keeping me from achieving perfect form on many movements are smaller muscles, such as the protraction in my planche. So I believe I just need some time to develop these muscles that I didn't focus on before. However, my elbows for example feel extremely strong and never feel sore or strained. I can easily do elbows forward (hands facing back) planche leans and even one legged planche without feeling any immediate soreness in my elbows. I only feel soreness the day after intensive training with my elbows in this fashion, but I believe that is normal.

I'm not here to boast about my skills, I know I have a lot to learn and plenty of work ahead of me. These are simply the things going through my mind trying to make this decision. I can't decide if I should try to get in person coaching, continue training the way I am and seeking advice from people such as Niels Jorgensen, Wesley Tan, and others, or buy the Foundation courses. I know I have weaknesses that need to be addressed, however I am addressing them in the best way I can.

Also, I don't think I have access to all the equipment I'd need for the foundation courses. I have a pullup bar and rings.

I truly apologize for this large post, but I thought I should include as much information as possible to get the best answers. Thank you all for any answers!

What you said you need the most, those smaller things like protraction and glute med activation, are kind of the point of foundation. Even in just foundation 1 you will master hollows, protraction, glute med activation, and so much more. These skills like levers and single leg squats aren't really the goal of foundation, in my opinion. They are a product of proper conditioning and preparation, which is the true goal.

You have plenty of equipment, at least for F1. Stall bars would be nice.

You'd also be surprised at what imbalances someone who's been active their whole life can develop

Having only read the first few sentences I think you should buy it.

If you somehow dislike the program or need Foundation 2 (for elements already mastered) you can always use the money-back guarantee.

However, quite a few people (including myself) have been humbled by the relatively simple looking, yet very challenging exercises to master. Form must be perfect, also for the mobility exercises. I have yet to see someone and hear of someone show mastery for all foundation 1 exercises within 6 months for the 2-3 years they have been out. Actually, I do not think anyone has yet shown mastery for all F4.

So, buy it and see for yourself. That is my advice.

You mentioned that you had problems with gluteus medius, hollow, and protraction of the Planche.  The thing is, in Foundation it's not about doing more Straddle Planches or One legged Planche over and over until you develop the necessary glute medius, hollow, and protraction strength.  Foundation is more about developing that strength in easier variations that you can do perfectly.  It tells you when you actually ready to train another variation.

From what you wrote, I think you did not understand what the foundation series is about and what it's contain.

You should buy it and see, I think you're afraid you're too good for this program and that the progressions will be too easy for you.

so, first, you always have the money back guarantee, and second, you will very fast discover that what you thought is wrong and the perfect form that required to master the exercises make them much harder than what they see like.

The objective of Foundation is attack your weaknesses not your strengths. If you buy it I'm sure you will find more weaknesses than you think.

Based on what you said you need work on, Foundation One won't be too easy for you.

Hi Solgymnasthenics,

The answer to your question is yes, you should train Foundation. As a 17-year-old, a good general rule in life is to learn from people who have already accumulated the knowledge, wisdom, and experiences you would like to have. Coach Sommer is one of those people.

And if you're as much of a stud as you say, then you should breeze through a good chunk of Foundation and begin working on more advanced elements in no time.   Seriously though, it's worth the investment and hit to your ego. Do it.

Best,

Chris

Alexander Egebak said:

I have yet to see someone and hear of someone show mastery for all foundation 1 exercises within 6 months for the 2-3 years they have been out. Actually, I do not think anyone has yet shown mastery for all F4

I have for the first part ;)Several people are just waiting on that stubborn manna for F4 graduation.

Thanks for the replies everyone. I really didn't mean to come on as egotistical or anything. I'm 100% sure I will struggle with the courses and they will provide plenty of a challenge. I simply thought that I might not need to spend all the money and still be able to fix my weaknesses. I want to eliminate my weaknesses as fast as possible so that I achieve my goals (to be healthy, and obtain certain skills). I'm sure the Foundation courses are the fastest way to do that but I'm very cautious about spending the money. The money back guarantee pretty much takes care of that though.

It's ok to hesitate, but not too much. I'll say go for it, you have nothing to lose.. in all this time you thought about it, you could buy it and start working and see for yourself that this is not what you think.

Itamar Sha said:

It's ok to hesitate, but not too much. I'll say go for it, you have nothing to lose.. in all this time you thought about it, you could buy it and start working and see for yourself that this is not what you think.

Yeah, thanks! All that's really left is convincing my dad to let me get it haha.

It's great to hear what you have achieved already and you obviously take the time to learn about your body.

At your age you have not had to deal with long term imbalances and training with chronic injuries. As you are getting to a higher level of strength you will be placing huge loads on the body. It becomes even more critical to make sure you have no weak areas otherwise the injuries are more catastrophic.

The great thing with foundation is that there is no hiding from these imbalances and you are forced to address them otherwise you cannot move through the program.

Remember also that these exercises are those that coach gave to young boys so they would progress without injuries. A lot of the guys on the forum are older and would love to have access to this material at 17.

I'm 14 years old and following the courses for more than a year. Amazing!

Mark Collins said:

A lot of the guys on the forum are older and would love to have access to this material at 17.

Yeah... that would have been awesome still, now is the best time to improve.

Mark Collins said:

 A lot of the guys on the forum are older and would love to have access to this material at 17.

Haha yeah, I plan on taking advantage of my age. Thank you all! I'll get the foundation courses as soon as I can, I've got stuff that needs to be finished before I can start but I'll start as soon as possible!

Get it. It's a one-time purchase and it's worth it. Quantitatively the price of Foundations gets cheaper the longer you are working with it. Also, if I could I would have started Foundations at 17. At (almost) 28 now, I would be much further along, but hindsight is always 20/20. Your progress is impressive, but with Foundations your progress will be complete. You won't have to wonder what-if. The injury and joint prehab they do is second to none, in terms of what is available outside of the elite and Olympic stratosphere (and much more affordable). 

I'm 14 years old and following the courses for more than a year.

Mark Collins said:

 A lot of the guys on the forum are older and would love to have access to this material at 17.

I wish I had access to this material at 37.

I hesitated to buy also, for the opposite reasons to you .. nearly 50 stiff as a board, thought I might struggle to either motivate myself and/or understand the terminology etc.

 I bought it because I knew if it wasn't for me then I could have a refund.  I wont be asking for the refund, Im blown away by how precise and yet simple it has been made... I would say, if you have an inkling to buy then just buy.. you have nothing to lose . the course forum is an additional benefit and is a very useful resource that is available once you buy in.

All the best , Lucy

Agree with most here. You will not regret it. I did my 230 workout today so it does get cheaper by the week. Yes having this available when I was 17 would have been nice.