Son is going vegan?

(I'm fine with him doing this btw, want to know how this will affect gymnastics progress)

My son is really anti-animal cruelty and slaughter. He is considering going vegan, as he just cannot tolerate all of the slaughter and suffering animals go through in the animal industry.

Is this okay for his gymnastics progress? 

He was also considering going ovo-lacto, getting eggs and milk humanely sourced from the farmer's market. How can we be sure those are humanely sourced (e.g. not chained up and caged animals)?

Thanks!

If you search in rural areas you can find butchers who doesent keep his animals in cages. If he replace protein from eggs, milk, cheese, etc. he should progress normal but im not sure will this be the smartest decision becouse he is still growing.

I prefere to buy meat from local butcher who keep his animals on farm rather from shops where mostly meat comes from those animals who are kept in cages whole life and probably tortured.

I think that if your son wants to go vegan it's not the smartest decision, but you know, you have to respect other people opinions and decisions. So, at least I'm going to say he should not make the same mistake that a lot of vegans do, I had a "vegan" friend and she stills eating prepackage food like oreos, doritos, ect, which for me sound incredibly ironical. If he want it, he should go for real. 

The two primary things to consider if going vegan

iron - non-heme (plant based) iron has a good bit lower availability than heme iron.   So endeavor keep high-iron plants at least daily if not every meal.

B12 - This is the one thing we can't get from plants.   you'll want to find a supplement for this.

if he eats a diversity of vegetables, fruits, nuts, and grains he should progress just fine.

Get to know the farmers, talk to them, ask them questions. Find co-ops in your ares.

I have no clue where you live, but most areas in the US should have access to humanely raised animals.

And of course there's always WILD FISH! 

I really appreciate the help! However, I've heard that most of the "wild fish" is really just farmed, caged, fish...

I think he might go ovolacto if we can find a good source of eggs and milk.

I will keep you all updated.

Thanks,

GenericGymnast

It should be easy to find eggs that are certified organic free-range in most stores these days.

Sean Hunter said:

 

And of course there's always WILD FISH! 

And this, I've never seen a fish chained up.

Well, you could look into and research those dairy and egg suppliers at the Farmer's market. Or you could make a chicken coop and take care of that part. 

I've never had ONE Vegan gymnast that was strong that didn't suffer from a lack of energy or ability to recover. Some had anemia besides often being scrawny and underweight. And weak. None of which are good if you want to train optimally IMO.

OTOH, Yoshi, one of my mentors as a coach is/was an Ovo-vegetarian as a college gymnast in Japan and still. He tends to recommend it a lot to his own gymnasts. He said he ate a LOT of eggs as he was training as a teen and still eats a fair amount. 

I can't remember her name but one of my gymnasts at GoldenBear was Lacto-Ovo. She was actually one of the strongest girls in her level and physically built well. She never had any problems in training besides head issues and typical preteen baloney. 

Claudia turned vegan in her last years as a compulsory gymnast because she was afraid of getting diabetes because she was hispanic and it was in her family. That being said, her ability to recover dive bombed and it was probably a part of what led towards her gymnastics retirement. Gotta eat food to recover. 

McKayla Maroney has turned towards Veganism earlier this year or late last year she said in one of her interviews or youtube videos. 

Mike Mahler OTOH is a well known vegan strength enthusiast. He doesn't do vegetarian protein powders and is big into lots of vegan protein sources like rice, and buckwheat, etc.

Supposedly Ilya Ilin, one of the greatest Weightlifters ever has gone Vegan/Vegetarian. ATG recently took a picture of a meal of his that was buckwheat and veggies. However, sometimes the Russians and Kazaks classify meat funny. Klokov was talking about not eating a lot of meat but still eating chicken and/or turkey and maybe fish?. So there is that nondescript classifications of red and white meats. 

Herschel Walker supposedly was vegan/vegetarian though he also suffers from MPD and plenty of his teammates have said he ate meat and was off his rocker.


So I think your son could still be successful as long as he was eating dairy/kefir and/or eggs or possibly pescatarianism which isn't really vegetarianism (but whatever). Too much conflicting data out there about soy so I'd stay away from that. 

A few years back I thought about going vegetarian because the SO was though she wasn't catty about it. It would have just been convenient and made her happy and I was thinking about supplementing Rice and pea protein and whey and sneaking in any meat outside of the home.  Over a decade ago, I did a month as a vegetarian but it was a pretty crappy month even though I ate eggs, beans, and cheese. I think I still wasn't balancing out my protein intake compared to what it was before. I think I could do it better this time around since I hardly drank milk or protein powder back then and I'd probably eat more boiled eggs during the day in addition to scrambled eggs in the morning.

My wife has been vegan for 20 years and she's healthy and strong and generally in much better shape than the general non-vegan population of the same age, but she's not into sports. I was very ignorant at the beginning, but after years of seeing perfect blood tests, strong health, etc... I convinced myself that a lot of misconception on veganism is due to ignorance and also to people trying going vegan before doing their homework, so it is good that you are investigating. That said, myself and our kids eat everything, but we are careful with the quality and the origin of all our food and keep processed food to bare minimum.

Ovo-lacto would be way easier for your son needs because of protein, calcium, etc... so I suggest that.

Finding local farms is the best suggestion I have. We buy Straus milk and dairy products. This farm respects all the humane criteria, but I believe their products are available in the bay area only. What I would do is call Straus (they have a good website) and ask for a recommendation of a similar farm in southern California closer to where you live.

Also, we use many local farm delivery services, that deliver once a week products from local farms and I'm sure these services are found everywhere in California.

Another strategy is going to Whole Foods for an exploratory trip and write down same names. Usually they have a bunch of stuff from local farms.

Farmer's market is another way to go. Finally, you can call the California Certified Organic Farmers directory, they have a directory of farms, but their website search doesn't seem to work for me.

edit: removed comment on oreos and vegans

original oreos are vegan. please check your facts before you talk nonsense.

sincerely, an oreo-eating vegan.

DieKatze said:

original oreos are vegan. please check your facts before you talk nonsense.

 

sincerely, an oreo-eating vegan.

Hey, I don't want to offend anyone and I'm not vegan myself, so it's definitely possible that I made a mistake. What I wrote was based on what is written on the website: http://www.oreo.co.uk/FAQ, specifically:

Thanks again for the help! We got some farmer market eggs which are weird tasting (not very processed), but they are quite healthy, and humane apparently. We will try those, and I'll look into Strauss/raw dairy. 

Sincerely,

GenericGymnast

Update: we found some Strauss suppliers on the website, we will see if we can find the whole milk. 

Is it true milk causes acne btw?

however, i think he will be ovolacto from now on. He will, however, consume fish oil for B12.

Thanks again

GenericGymnast said:

(I'm fine with him doing this btw, want to know how this will affect gymnastics progress)

 

My son is really anti-animal cruelty and slaughter. He is considering going vegan, as he just cannot tolerate all of the slaughter and suffering animals go through in the animal industry.

 

Is this okay for his gymnastics progress? 

 

He was also considering going ovo-lacto, getting eggs and milk humanely sourced from the farmer's market. How can we be sure those are humanely sourced (e.g. not chained up and caged animals)?

 

 

Thanks!

Since he's trying to do this for ethical reasons, and not necessarily for optimum health considerations, etc., can you ask him to at least postpone the "trip to veganism" until he's about 21 years of age, and has reached his full growth potential, etc?

There are reasons aplenty why he should NOT do this, particularly while he's still in a rapid growth stage (I'm assuming he's a teenager).

Past rapid-growth and full developmental maturity, I think it's fine for him to experiment with whatever diet he may wish with little risk of PERMANENT consequence on his development.

Muscle development as a vegan is not a problem at all. There are numerous sources of protein powders to choose from. One of my personal favorites is made by the company "Amazing Grass." 

Calcium and Iron aren't an issue....chomp on baby spiniach like they are potato chips.

For b12....I chomp on one chewable tablet of methylcobalamin made by Jarrow Forumulas.

As for protein... the cellular wall of the plant cell is made up of three different proteins. Fruits and vegetables have a skin and meat also.

Giovanni Garcea said:

 

Hey, I don't want to offend anyone and I'm not vegan myself, so it's definitely possible that I made a mistake. What I wrote was based on what is written on the website: http://www.oreo.co.uk/FAQ, specifically:

 

"Is Oreo suitable for vegans?

Oreo is not suitable for Vegans as they have the cross contact of Milk."

 

After your post I searched a little more and I found a reddit thread where different people have different opinions. I don't have one and again I apologize if I offended you.

https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/2evzk0/oreos_official_statement_on_their_biscuit_not/

 

Oreo cookies outside of the United States of "America" may not be vegan. Otherwise the Oreo cookies shipped within the United States of "America" are vegan.

I think we should put our differences aside, at least temporarily,  and work together to abolish both the vegan and milk tainted Oreos. If we can't agree on that we've truly come nowhere as a species and I'm jumping on with VHEMT.

I want to add that the best piece of advice that I always said to people is that if you make some changes on your diet, and your overall health improves, you should keep doing that ! But in the other hand, if you remove for example gluten from your diet just because you think is bad for you without an actual prove of it you're just wasting time. My point is that you should hear your body and see if the feedback is positive or negative. For example for me I can't eat powder milk, everything I do it I ended up with stomach problems, when other people can eat that without problems. One size doesn't fit all.

GenericGymnast said:

Thanks again for the help! We got some farmer market eggs which are weird tasting (not very processed), but they are quite healthy, and humane apparently. We will try those, and I'll look into Strauss/raw dairy. 

 

Sincerely,

GenericGymnast

I wish you and your son the best. : )

Thanks

Here is what I would do. Take it or leave it.

1. Ignore this forum.

2. Research yourself studies on Vegan diet and impacts on athletic performance.

3. Use this information and make an informed decision.

4. Discuss this with your son. Without knowing his age I will not comment further on this step.

- Callum

There is a definite difference between large scale farming and small scale farming.  Go to the farmers markets.  Ask if you can stop by for a tour.  Most family farmers I know are quite careful with how they treat their animals and go out of their way to make the lives of their animals as nice as possible.  Especially those who go to the farmers markets are building their reputations on good conditions for their animals (whether certified organic or not).  They are usually more than happy  to back that up with a tour of the farm.

Another thing you can look into, for eggs anyways, is the "Certified Humane" standard.  It's not necessarily organic, but the animals get treated well.  Whole Foods has a pretty good scale for how the animals are treated as well.

i would probably dismiss the athletic aspect of things and just concentrate on the growth of your child, i mean i have no idea how veganism affects growth

So I've been working on foundation for about 6 months now, lurking the forums, and I'm finally gonna break my post cherry because I feel like this is something I can add to...

I've been eating vegan for about three years now.  It's not a simple diet to follow and easily get all of the nutrients/vitamins/protein you need while participating in athletics, especially anything involving strength training.  You have to do a lot of reading and research to get it right, and you have to prepare most of your food yourself.  It doesn't surprise me at all that so many gymnasts listed in the above posts experienced nosedives in performance when switching to a vegan diet because it's not an easy thing to do.  That being said, it can be done.  I'm currently training F7 and H1 three days per week with no problems in recovery, and I'm not a kid anymore at 35 years old.  I don't use supplements except for B12 and multivitamins.  I also make my living as a hot yoga teacher and practice our 90 minute class 3-4 times a week on top of GST.

Starting with ovo-lacto is a good move.  You could even think of it like a progression.  Have your son figure out how to meet his dietary needs for athletic strength training as an ovo-lacto first, then if he's feeling healthy and wants to go further he can cut out dairy products- after doing a lot of research on where he'll find plant based calcium and protien.  And finally if he's really ready to jump on the plant based protien train he can leave eggs behind. 

I don't want to get into specifics here because web forums just aren't a good place to find scientifically based vegan nutrition information.  There are many common misconceptions, some of which were even stated in this thread.  People can also get very emotional about training on a vegan diet, on both sides, and it gets weird.  There are good sources of information online, but you have to be discerning.  The best place to start is this book, written by two vegan registered dieticians (means they have a four year degree in nutrition).  If your son isn't ready to read that sucker cover to cover a few times and take notes as he goes, he's going to have a very hard time training on a vegan diet.

Good luck!

Personal Background

Like Patrick, I have a background in yoga and am familiar with eating a plant based diet, both from personal experience (about half of my friend circle eats vegetarian) and from research on the topic.

I’ve been eating vegetarian for more than 7 years, out of which 3 years vegan. Despite making some suboptimal choices while experimenting, my health benefited much from transitioning to this way of eating, to some extent also because of becoming more aware of the foods I’m taking in and eliminating all processed foods and refined sugar. Soon after eating vegan, I noticed major health benefits (improved digestion and clear skin), but I became most of all motivated to pursue it when my doubts on potential harm on athletic performance were erased. This happened following my own improvements in running and flexibility and from researching top athletes’ diet finding some of them as well as some of world’s most gifted intellectuals eating a plant based diet.

I met people from different parts of the world whom were born on a vegan diet or transitioned in their teenager years. All of them were well grown and healthy. More so if they exercised and did not indulge in eating junk foods.

Health and athletic performance on a vegetarian/vegan diet

As to the question of whether eating vegan/vegetarian can be healthy, there should be no doubt that the answer is yes if the diet is done properly. Probably the most extensive study ever done on the subject is The China Study whose results favour vegan diet for long term health.

As to the question of whether a vegetarian and/or vegan diet and athletic performance can go hand in hand, I feel the question can best be answered by looking at whether  vegetarians and vegans can compete at the highest levels of sports competition.

Considering that the vast majority of people in the population does not eat a vegetarian diet and society’s food supplies and food education are favouring an omnivore diet with high meat consumption, if we find some vegetarian top athletes that seems to be a confident indication that the combination of vegetarian food and athletic performance is a compatible one.

In looking to find vegetarian or vegan top athletes one can find numerous names. Some examples include:

• For gymnastics: Kathy Johnson (Olympic Gymnast) and Dan Millman (world class trampolinist).
• For bodybuilding:  Al Beckles, Andreas Cahling, Cory Everson, Roy Hilligan, Sharon Hounsell, Lindford McFarquar, Bill Pearl
• For wrestling: “Killer” Kowalski, Katherine Monbiot (World Champion arm wrestler and nutritionist)
• For power lifting: Bill Manetti, Debbie Spaeth-Herring
• For weight lifting: Monika Montsho

Asides: Dave Scott (6-time Hawaii Ironman), Rudy Carti (World record for 151,000 abdominal crunches in 48 hours),

There are many names in triathlon, marathon, running, combat and other sports as well.

Notice that these are names from an older generation. Especially within the previous generations in which eating a vegan/vegetarian diet was probably even less favoured than today, the finding of vegan top athletes seems indicative of compatibility of vegan diet and athletic performance.  As far as I am aware, in the last decades there has been an upward trend of prevalence of vegan/vegetarian athletes.

Cautions when transitioning

The cautions when transitioning to a new diet given by many are well in place. Whenever we start something new, we have more chance of making learning mistakes. This does not mean that what we are doing is wrong, rather that we are still learning to do it well. For this, proper information and logistics are to be considered in advance.

The case of someone new to a vegan diet could be compared to someone new to gymnastics.

A person new to gymnastics trying to do advanced gymnastic skills without proper coaching is more likely to get injured than someone who trains in proper facilities with great coaching. It is clear that when done properly, gymnastics is very beneficial to overall health and the injury should not be interpreted as owing to gymnastics in itself, rather lack of experience in its practice. 

The best information for gymnastic training is to be found from competent gymnastic coaches and enjoying decent facilities. Then also, vegan diet is optimal when vegan food resources are well available (which is the case in our present time conditions) as well as proper experienced advice from those having followed this way of eating. If one is interested to be a vegan high performance athlete, he/she will obtain their best information from observing vegan athletes’ diet and performance. They (vegan athlethes) are quite numerous (proportionally to the amount of omnivores in the whole population) if one looks around and some of them are sharing their eating habits. 

Conclusion

All of the above, though limited in its scope and extent and without giving evidence on which diet could be optimal for athleticism, validly indicates that athletic performance at the highest levels and vegetarian/vegan diet are well compatible.

Good luck to all in combining athletic performance, animal welfare, and health considerations!

PS: Here is a list of vegan strength athletes: http://www.greatveganathletes.com/strength

PPS: One of world's strongest men, holding several world records, eats vegan:

GenericGymnast said:

(I'm fine with him doing this btw, want to know how this will affect gymnastics progress)

 

My son is really anti-animal cruelty and slaughter. He is considering going vegan, as he just cannot tolerate all of the slaughter and suffering animals go through in the animal industry.

 

Is this okay for his gymnastics progress? 

 

 

He was also considering going ovo-lacto, getting eggs and milk humanely sourced from the farmer's market. How can we be sure those are humanely sourced (e.g. not chained up and caged animals)?

 

 

Thanks!

With all due respect to everyone here..  The problem with Veg diets where how to retain strength & recovery is that most people source information from research & journals that are few decades old..

If you really want veg information that has been used & proven for centuries.. look up the following: 

"Sushil Kumar Diet" - Lacto Veg - World Wrestling Gold winner

"Indian Wrestler/ Wrestling Diet" - There are some articles and there are few extensively researched books. 

Common themes across them {fundamentals based on Ayurveda - worlds oldest life & diet science}:

- Good organic milk - Sattvic {key for mind & body} - they dont recommend eggs or dead animals

- Ghee

- Overnight Soaked, Peeled Almonds.. & freshly powdered .. had with above in various ways/ combinations

- Soaked - dried Figs.. with Milk.. {said to be superb for rejuvenation}

- A balanced diet of cooked lentils/ beans {mung, urad, chick peas, kidney beans} with wheat chapatis / rotis & rice + decent balance of vegetables..

I remember when I had followed parts of this and worked out consistently for few months.. I packed on muscle .. I was younger then..  

Key thing.. I was eating on time and in quantity..