I am afraid to get leaner. Help !

I am afraid to get leaner because :

* I am afraid to lose upper body bulk and look flat and average

* I am afraid of not gaining any size while staying lean

* I am still concerned about the opinions of others about me

But i know that losing excess weight ( fat and water retention ) will increase my performance in GST and later on tumbling/acrobatics

How should one choose the correct path here ?

I want to be strong and look like a GST material 

I know that these reasons about being afraid to lose weight sound childish but I am trying to battle them for some time now.

Why not aiming for a lean and shredded look? That's far from average and I'd say it's way more difficult to achieve than looking big and bulky.

1. You will lose bulk. You will feel and be smaller. But if you suck it up and stick to your diet regiment (given that it is appropriate for your goals, i.e. doesn't make you lose too much muscle along side with fat) you'll end up looking better then ever before, despite actually being smaller, because every muscle will show up better, making the illusion that you are bigger

2. You won't gain size while getting lean but after you're done "cutting" I don't see why you shouldn't gain mass. Just know that it's gonna be slower if you want to minimize fat gains.

3. The opinion of other will change, for the better! But primarily you should be doing all this for yourself, not to impress others.

Overall just take your time with the diet, rushing through it will put your lean mass at risk, and that not what we aim for.

On the topic of point 1, watch this video: it doesn't relate to GST and the guy is a little douch but it will make you understand better this matter

https://youtu.be/4F-FoF90bVc

You CAN lose bf and gain muscle at the same time. Try eating more on workout days, and less on non-workout days. 

Body recomposition can be a lengthy process and you probably wont get it right the first time and will need to tweak everything

along the way. 

I wouldn't worry too much about what others think. You dont need people in your life who are going to tear you down, and you closest friends/family etc should support you when you are trying to make a positive change in your life. 

^ plus, everybody is too busy thinking about themselves to care what someone else looks like (case in point: Mr. Puppeh ) I never held anyone in higher esteem just because they had a nice physique. If you take care of yourself and be nice to people thats what matters

As you get leaner you may look bigger because you are more defined. E.g Brad Pitt in fight club.

I think I must focus to get stronger until I can do some Advanced GST, then my physical appearance would change aswell for the good

MrPuppeh,

What is your current body composition? This type of conversation is best framed with actual numbers in mind. A few coaches at the Poliquin Group facility, for instance, cited a study that (male) athletes are fastest and strongest per pound at around 6-7% body fat. (Females were supposedly 12-14%.)

Best,

Chris

Chris Garay said:

MrPuppeh,

What is your current body composition? This type of conversation is best framed with actual numbers in mind. A few coaches at the Poliquin Group facility, for instance, cited a study that (male) athletes are fastest and strongest per pound at around 6-7% body fat. (Females were supposedly 12-14%.)

Best,

Chris

Im about 20% bodyfat. im 6 feet 3 inch and 232 pounds 

Would be excited to get to 8% -10% and see how well I perform / recover etc

Mr Puppeh,

I think you need to also think of how much better you will be able to move, how much more freedom you'll feel and how much better you will be able to perfom gymnastics strength movements.

I've recently lost weight bringing me down from 204lbs to 168lbs at 5'8" and feel like a different person. I can do moves I couldn't do before and moves I could do feel so much easier there's a definite reason gymnasts all have low bodyfat. My movement in general is much freer and easier. As an aesthetic aside I look better too can see some ab/muscle definition which I couldn't before. 

Go for it!

Chris Garay said:

MrPuppeh,

What is your current body composition? This type of conversation is best framed with actual numbers in mind. A few coaches at the Poliquin Group facility, for instance, cited a study that (male) athletes are fastest and strongest per pound at around 6-7% body fat. (Females were supposedly 12-14%.)

Best,

Chris

The other question that came to my mind is that - Is that low bf % good for maintainance and building strenght and performance ? Or is it non sustainable and short term performance. I am actually curious what is the most optimal bf% of male gymnasts

You can always be thinner, look better

MrPuppeh,

If you are 20% body fat, then you have quite a bit of body fat to lose before you need to worry about it interfering with your strength gains. Maintain your muscle mass by (gymnastics) strength training, and decrease your body fat by appropriate nutrition and lifestyle. Feel free to PM me if you'd like more personalized help.

Best,

Chris

Chris Garay said:

A few coaches at the Poliquin Group facility, for instance, cited a study that (male) athletes are fastest and strongest per pound at around 6-7% body fat. (Females were supposedly 12-14%.)

That low? I thought that for men the ideal range was between 10-12% for both performance and health. I might have to lose some fat myself then

Edoardo, the recommendation for 6-7% was for optimal relative strength and speed in male athletes, not necessarily trying to optimize health. Perhaps floating closer to 10% on a regular basis would be a better balance here, but that is a different subject altogether!

Best,

Chris

MrPuppeh said:

Im about 20% bodyfat. im 6 feet 3 inch and 232 pounds 

 

Would be excited to get to 8% -10% and see how well I perform / recover etc

Don't take this personally, but 20% is fat.  People won't be judging you for looking smaller, but they are judging you for being fat.  I let myself get up that high while in a bad depression, and it was gross.  None of the "bulk" I had compares to the definition I am starting to see while cutting back down to normal levels.  I many areas I look more muscular, since you can actually see muscle now.

It also depends on how accurately measured is the body fat percentage. According to my investigation and personal experience, any method other than then a DEXA scan, that is considered the gold standard, tends to underestimate the real body fat percentage. So I usually assume that if somebody thinks that he has "about 20%" body fat, in the vast majority of cases he has, in reality, more than that.

A DEXA verified 10% body fat does indeed look great, looking at the pictures online (I'm not there myself, but slowly moving towards it).

Nick_EOD said:

Don't take this personally, but 20% is fat.  

21.8% body fat here (female). WHO'S CALLING ME FAT?! 

Not taking this personally of course 

Optimal weight/strength ratio requires ~17% (females, male figures given in posts above), which will make a huge difference to levers & effort etc in Foundation. 

I would advise the OP to achieve fat loss over a long period of time (years), keep up Foundation, add in regular cardio, and move more. I have the same fears as you. With regards to the last one, as I get older I realise more and more that worrying about what others think of you is a total unnecessary waste of time, so save yourself the mental anguish and just be what YOU want to be.

I fluctuate around 8-11% body fat around the year. I find myself looking a lot bigger when 8% versus 11%, since my upper body stays pretty much the same size (and has a huuuge amount of definition), but my waist gets a lot leaner. Looking big and shredded is not only about size but

sound like you have to choose yourself

Nick_EOD said:

Don't take this personally, but 20% is fat. 

I wonder if a certain percentage looks different on different people?

I'm about 20%, as measured by DEXA, and don't have visible abs but have been told I'm lean. Maybe it depends on what standards you're judging that by.

The Hansenator said:

I wonder if a certain percentage looks different on different people?

 

I'm about 20%, as measured by DEXA, and don't have visible abs but have been told I'm lean. Maybe it depends on what standards you're judging that by.

There's certainly a variance in proportions that makes one person appear leaner at 12% than another person at 10%. But I have never seen anyone at 20% that looks lean. Do you care to share a picture? Not because I'm looking to judge you, but it would be interesting.

Luzian said:

There's certainly a variance in proportions that makes one person appear leaner at 12% than another person at 10%. But I have never seen anyone at 20% that looks lean. Do you care to share a picture? Not because I'm looking to judge you, but it would be interesting.

DEXA is really unforgiving. Look at this guy, he measured 21.2% and I wouldn't call him fat:

http://forum.simplyshredded.com/topic/10259/contuine-to-bulk-at-21-bf-dexa-scan-pic/

As for same percentage looking different on different people, that's for sure a big factor.

Anyway, I'm also attaching, for reference, a couple of pictures of myself at a 15.7% as measured by DEXA in early June.

By researching on the internet, estimation of body fat is all over the place. The only way to really know is either get a DEXA scan or comparing yourself with a DEXA verified picture of somebody that has similar body type and body fat as yourself.

Yeah, but at some point you'll learn to estimate pretty accurately but looking at pictures. I wouldn't call anyone fat, but I would have estimated the guy in the first link at around 18% and you probably at around 14%. In my experience all the other methods (calipers, bioimpedance, etc.) all are resulting in numbers that are too low.