Pre-requisites strength level for beginners

For example -

Muscles up - pre-requisite strength for this skill is to be able to do a dead hang chin up(preferable to the chest) and a full ring dip

Wall Static Handstand - able to at least hold 60% BW above your head with elbows locked out.

Wall Handstand push up - able to do at least 80% BW shoulder press with elbows locked out.

Along those lines, would appreciate if anyone has any clue.

I'm finding that for some skills, i'm lacking some basic strength so i would like to program in, outside of gymnastic drills in the weight room as supplementary training.

You didn't indicate any skills where you're having problems...

Generally, the best solution is to do them though or variations of them to get stronger. Adding weights can work... but it's for the most part faster doing them...

If you're overweight, you will be benefited more from focusing on weight loss while maintaining strength levels (if you're a novice you can gain strength during fat loss too).

Well my skills are pretty limited to MU and HS just to master the basics.

So I though people can contribute what they feel is basic requirements to do a certain skill.

I've never tested it but I doubt I would try to get some of my little gymnasts who can do stomach to wall HS to try to hold 60% of their BW over their head. A 35 pound gymnast would have to hold like a 20 pound bar over their head. Of course, most would have balance issues with the bar.

On an interesting note, one of the coaches I worked under would have his trampolinists frequently hold a bar overheard, somewhat scaling up the weight. I'm sure some of the tiny kids were holding close to this but these were kids with some definite strength and skill already in the HS and of 6 or 7 years old.

Weib, simply get to the wall and make it your friend. Find the angle you can hold a HS on the wall and train it. Eventually as you do it more often, you will simply get better at it by recruiting more muscle motor units to engage the HS. Start in a pushup and walk your way up. If you have a hard time holding a pushup position, that is where you will need to start.

As for your MU, work towards that false grip pullup to breastbone and a dip on rings.

For anyone aspiring for gymnastics, it's probably a better use of time to just train the HS than doing overhead presses or lockouts, which while can be useful should not replace HS work.

Blairbob said:

I've never tested it but I doubt I would try to get some of my little gymnasts who can do stomach to wall HS to try to hold 60% of their BW over their head. A 35 pound gymnast would have to hold like a 20 pound bar over their head. Of course, most would have balance issues with the bar.

On an interesting note, one of the coaches I worked under would have his trampolinists frequently hold a bar overheard, somewhat scaling up the weight. I'm sure some of the tiny kids were holding close to this but these were kids with some definite strength and skill already in the HS and of 6 or 7 years old.

Weib, simply get to the wall and make it your friend. Find the angle you can hold a HS on the wall and train it. Eventually as you do it more often, you will simply get better at it by recruiting more muscle motor units to engage the HS. Start in a pushup and walk your way up. If you have a hard time holding a pushup position, that is where you will need to start.

As for your MU, work towards that false grip pullup to breastbone and a dip on rings.

For anyone aspiring for gymnastics, it's probably a better use of time to just train the HS than doing overhead presses or lockouts, which while can be useful should not replace HS work.

***********While not disagreeing with you i have found that overhead presses and supports do work well with heavy adults

(200 pounds plus).

brandon green

Blairbob said:

I've never tested it but I doubt I would try to get some of my little gymnasts who can do stomach to wall HS to try to hold 60% of their BW over their head. A 35 pound gymnast would have to hold like a 20 pound bar over their head. Of course, most would have balance issues with the bar.

On an interesting note, one of the coaches I worked under would have his trampolinists frequently hold a bar overheard, somewhat scaling up the weight. I'm sure some of the tiny kids were holding close to this but these were kids with some definite strength and skill already in the HS and of 6 or 7 years old.

Weib, simply get to the wall and make it your friend. Find the angle you can hold a HS on the wall and train it. Eventually as you do it more often, you will simply get better at it by recruiting more muscle motor units to engage the HS. Start in a pushup and walk your way up. If you have a hard time holding a pushup position, that is where you will need to start.

As for your MU, work towards that false grip pullup to breastbone and a dip on rings.

For anyone aspiring for gymnastics, it's probably a better use of time to just train the HS than doing overhead presses or lockouts, which while can be useful should not replace HS work.

****** Food for thought.the larger one is the more assistance exercises were necessary in the sports of Oly lifting and Powerlifting(from the powerlifting coaches i talked to and Soviet research i read). would not this apply to gymnastics especially for very large beginners.

Brandon Green

If someone was spending 2-3x as much time doing overhead holds and presses than HS that would not be preferable, imo. If it was the other way around, I'd be pleased.

However, if I had someone that was very weak, as an adult and could not hold a simple pushup position much less than wall handstand at 45 degrees or 60, then I might consider overhead holds.

Not exactly the be all end all with absolutes but maybe some kind of benchmarks that newbies at adult age can test to see.

Bare in mind that the motor recruitment patterns for an overhead press and HS hold on wall are not the same as well. Just because you can do HSPU will not mean you can press well and vice versa.

good point and noted!

Okay so far, for MUs I find that Wrist and forearm strength is required.

I can't even hold myself up for a False grip chin up on the rings - I can't hold the "chicken wing" position and my hand will slip into the rings where my fingers will grab it.

I'm progressing it with False grip Ring rows and Seated muscle up with no legs at all.

Yep, it takes some time to develop that false grip, especially long duration.