need help with tuck up and deck squat

So I just started the GB Foundations course.  I am having some issues with tuck-ups and deck squats.  I am pretty sure they are mobility issues I have.

When I perform a deck squat I can get up but at the point when I get up I fall back maybe a foot or two before I can fully stand up.

Additionally on the tuck up ...although the movement isn't necessarily hard from a strength perspective I certainly am no where near close to getting my knees to my chest.  I notice at the top of the movement I am not on my sitting bones.

What extra mobility work can I do to help me progress?  In three workouts so far  all of these movements have become better so part of overcoming this is to keep doing it.  

I would like to put a little extra work in on the side however to help me overcome theses issues and I am not sure what extra specific things I can do to work on these movements.

Any advice is appreciated!

Thanks in advance,

John

Tight hip flexors can cause an anterior pelvic tilt that  prevents a good leg to chest compression that is indispensable to succeed in those exercises, I suggest to check this point: try the exercises then make a good hip flexor stretch and then try them again and see if there are improvements.

Hip flexor stretches should be added asap! Tight hip flexors will prevent you from performing a lot of things like you see. Even hollow body holds

I also have the same problem. Can you please indicate some useful hip flexor stretches? Or we should just try the tuck up until chest and knees touch?

You must first check if you have the passive flexibility for a knee to chest contact.

I don’t have a deep understanding in biodynamics , but the thing is that I have the passive flexibility to touch my knees with my chest when my knees and shins are on the floor, but when performing the tuck up I just can’t reach the chest with my knees. I guess this is a mobility problem but the videos I’ve seen for hip flexors are stretching the body in the opposite direction, like opening the hips…wouldn’t it be better to stretch and gain mobility in a similar movement to the tuck up?. Maybe I’m messing things up, hope to have expressed my thoughts clear enough XD

Maybe you can touch your knees with your chest thanks to a deep bending of your upper back while the lower is lacking in mobilty.

The hip flexors muscles connect the low spine with the legs and so to lengthen them  is necessary to make the stretches as shown in the videos, the classic pike stretching does not affect them.

Consdering that in the tuck up and deck squat the legs are bent in the legs to chest phase, there should be no problems caused by tight hamstrings, while having an anterior pelvic tilt due to tight hip flexors can cause many and I've experieced this personally.

Lots of threads on deck squats which have been an issue for me, too.  You can roll on an elevated surface (like a panel mat) and land your feet on the ground (not on an elevated surface).  You can hold a weight in your hands to add forward momentum.  Magic for me has been weighted squat holds.  I go into a deep squat and then hold a 40# kettlebell  while resting my elbows on my knees and lean forward as far as possible keeping my heels on the ground.  I do this before each set and can now successfully deck roll about 70% of my reps. 

Kelly Gage said:

Lots of threads on deck squats which have been an issue for me, too.  You can roll on an elevated surface (like a panel mat) and land your feet on the ground (not on an elevated surface).  You can hold a weight in your hands to add forward momentum.  Magic for me has been weighted squat holds.  I go into a deep squat and then hold a 40# kettlebell  while resting my elbows on my knees and lean forward as far as possible keeping my heels on the ground.  I do this before each set and can now successfully deck roll about 70% of my reps. 

Why is that? Has that increased your mobility?

Yesterday I did my initial assessment and I too struggled with this two elements.

Actually tuck ups weren't that bad, I lost my balance a couple of times in the middle of the set, but I'm confident that I can deal with this aspect.

But the deck squats, oh boy... I almost injured myself because I kept losing my balance trying to get up and had to take several steps back not to fall.

I was going to post for suggestions on how to deal with this zero rep starting point, but this thread already has some good suggestions.

I will probably try holding a weight to help with the momentum.

Doing the weighted squats is helping with my ankle flexibility allowing me to get more over my feet before I stand up.

Kelly Gage said:

Doing the weighted squats is helping with my ankle flexibility allowing me to get more over my feet before I stand up.

I was thinking of squatting with heel together, really deep, and holding on to something and pushing forward and feeling the weight on my ankles. This way, I think is more efficient because of no muscles is required and therefor you can hold the position longer for like 5-10 minutes for a more efficient mobility drill for the ankles.

I'm using weighted work as well and ankle mobs to help with an old injury I had that jams me up. I used to use a 25lbs weight but found that it seems to help too much as odd as that might sound. I say this cause I just started to use 5lbs wrist weights on each hand and I feel I have to work harder, like my core, to punch out of the bottom. So now I try to use the least amount of weight that helps me stand up. Easy to figure out if one has a few diff weights and tries the movement. Eventually you'll hit a weight that you can't roll up with so you know where to start. I have also tried an elevated platform with very good success as suggested by GB coaches which works well too. made one out of 1x1s to get low as possible, but I do the weight now so that i can work off the ground. 

as an aside I too have been using a squat with feet together but for more of a stretch. I just sit in the bottom position for a time. Showed real fast how my ankle mob is, not great on one foot. but Found it actually has helped a bit in increasing the ROM. 

I'm trying to understand how tight hip flexor means poor knees to chest. Hip flexors close the angle between the leg and body, the passive ability to get knees to chest would be a passive component from the posterior muscles. However once passive flexibility is achieved then to actively get in the same position would require a strong contraction from your hip flexors which could be hindered if they were not well developed and comfortable contracting in that range of motion.

In terms of anterior pelvic tilt, I'd imagine that is in reference to having a stronger knee to chest rather than weaker where slouching is a way to get knees to chest but isn't as correct as someone who is more upright.

So ultimately a good knee to chest involves: 1) enough posterior flexibility to passively get in the final position with minimal effort, and 2) enough hip flexor strength to get in the same position against Gravity, but 3) ultimately watching the hip position to make sure you are as upright as possible.

Someone please chime in here and tell me if my thinking is right or not, concerning the tuck-up.

I'm just starting this movement as well.  When I get to the end of the backwards roll, I find that if I push off the floor with my arms (arms overhead but out to the sides somewhat), that gives me enough acceleration to stand up after rolling forwards (as long as I keep my heels tucked tightly to my butt).  Is this a good way to get started, or will pushing with the hands make it harder to progress to proper form?  Should I switch to weighted instead?

I think the point is that hip flexors connect from the front of the thigh running back to the spine. It seems counterintuitive, but tight hip flexors will pull the lower spine towards the thighs resulting in arching of the lower back, which is exactly what you don't want when tucking. You want to eliminate the arch.

Anyway, this is a common beginner mobility issue. I know I had the same issues. What helped me especially in the deck squats was to really focus on the tuck while rolling back toward the squat. I mean really compress as much as possible, knees to chest, heels to ass. This more than anything got my feet under me so I could stand back up smoothly, without stumbling, even despite my tight ankles. And the good news is that when I sorted out my tuck compression both deck squats and tuck-ups just fell into place for me. I didn't have to add any special supplementation.

So I say keep working on it, and think about investing in the stretch series because if you follow that program consistently you know you'll have all your bases covered as far as mobility goes.

BobH said:

I'm just starting this movement as well. When I get to the end of the backwards roll, I find that if I push off the floor with my arms (arms overhead but out to the sides somewhat), that gives me enough acceleration to stand up after rolling forwards (as long as I keep my heels tucked tightly to my butt). Is this a good way to get started, or will pushing with the hands make it harder to progress to proper form? Should I switch to weighted instead?

I think most the GB coaches would suggest to use a slightly elevated surface rather that push off. If not that then a try a light weight. At least that's the guidance I was given by coaches and it's working. I used to not be able to pop up without backwards stumbling. With time not an issue now. 2 cents...

Keep working on slow negatives too-- try to lower and tuck as tight as you can before rolling back

Pushing off of an elevated surface is more true to the natural movement of deck squats than holding a weight in front of you.

Thanks Jon for the input. I'll try to incorporate that. I'm sure it will make it more difficult tho as momentum is a big part of my success right now. Oh well perfect practice makes perfect I guess

Jon Douglas said:

Keep working on slow negatives too-- try to lower and tuck as tight as you can before rolling back

So today I thought I would give this a try. I started out with listening to the F1 webinar again to kick my butt in gear (for some reason felt real guilty about the "most don't work hard enough that fail at F1 comment from Coach paraphrased      )  then some jump rope for warm up. I hung out in a squat position to stretch calf and ankle. I had a badly sprained ankle few years ago so the ROM with it is crap despite long bout of physio. So I've taken to hanging out in a squat with feet under hips, counter balanced with a weight or I would fall back. Usually after 5 mins I can put the weight down and stay upright on own with a lot of effort. This seems to be the only thing thats actually made a big impact on my ankle ROM for some reason. Annyyyyy who....

I have to say I doubted this since I can only seem to get up, without stumbling, using a weight (thank you Zach for that success). But despite what I thought (and who cares anyways when it come to this stuff lol) I did as you suggested. Squatted down low, concentrated on compressing my legs to chest and ankle to butt, slowly fell back, then forward and WTH!? I popped up!! This is nuts....less than half the momentum I usually need to spring forward. I would never said that could have worked for me. Now I got only 3 good reps and then started to stumble backwards but I'll frickin take it! Thanks GB coaches you guys rock!!

Well done!

Is there a recommended way to get better at the deck squats if you can't even do one rep? Or maybe a common weakness or immobility that plagues people who have trouble? I've looked all over the forum and I've tried a couple of the suggestions but I'd rather have a more concrete answer. Like "Here is the problem" and "this is what you can do to fix it".

I've heard a lot about ankle flexibility, weak glutes, tight hip flexors...etc., but is any of that actually accurate? In my own example it actually feels more like quads and hip flexor weakness and maybe some IT band tightness.

The way I look at it, practicing the wrong move over and over only makes you better at doing the wrong move. Just looking for a more concrete answer.

Just to clarify - I'll do 10,000 reps of anything that will help me achieve one deck squat if you can guarantee me it works. LOL.

Mr. Bystander said:

Is there a recommended way to get better at the deck squats if you can't even do one rep? Or maybe a common weakness or immobility that plagues people who have trouble? I've looked all over the forum and I've tried a couple of the suggestions but I'd rather have a more concrete answer. Like "Here is the problem" and "this is what you can do to fix it".

 

I've heard a lot about ankle flexibility, weak glutes, tight hip flexors...etc., but is any of that actually accurate? In my own example it actually feels more like quads and hip flexor weakness and maybe some IT band tightness.

 

The way I look at it, practicing the wrong move over and over only makes you better at doing the wrong move. Just looking for a more concrete answer.

 

Just to clarify - I'll do 10,000 reps of anything that will help me achieve one deck squat if you can guarantee me it works. LOL.

For me it was ankle flexibility.  Once I concentrated on the mobility drills and the stretch course that improves the ankle flexibility.....it became a piece of cake to do these.  Also, you want to start out placing a thick blanket down to roll back on and gradually reduce the elevation.

I was just reading this thread with real interest and thought I'd post my experience. as it might help. I iniitially found this tough... firstly, i couldn't get up and then when i did manage to i was using a lot of momentum, which is kinda dangerous. Recently i started doing 30 mins of yoga flexibility at home using an ipad app that my wife downloaded (my wife pestered me into it). After three weeks of 4-5 times a week, i noticed that this movement became much easer, almost effortless, which came as a total surprise. I think the difference between yoga and some of the other tips in this thread is that yoga is more holistic as opposed to stretching isolated muscles... the body functions as a whole system after all . For years, I've ignored yoga and the principles of the body as a whole, always search for that perfect isolated stretch whenever I had an issue, but now I think my gymnastics will be vastly improved if i maintain regular yoga.

i think I remember reading somewhere (or perhaps listening to) coach mention that you should do other forms of exercise outside of the gymnastics, such as yoga. You gotta hand it to the guy, he knows what he's talking about!