Going dairy free

As the title says, I'm considering going dairy free. I used to drink 0,5 litre of milk everyday with my cereals and usually also eat a Greek yogurt later in the day. Now I found that I perform better when my breakfast consist of other thing but milk and cereals ( I especially enjoy this one recipe https://youtu.be/tl-L8JdscVY). Then I started noticing that I get breakouts after the days where I consume dairy products. Also my mom says that when I was a little child I used to be slightly intolerant to lactose but the doctor suggested her to continue giving me because it wasn't a big deal. So I'm considering going dairy free for a while and see what happens. Are you aware of some health benefits that could come from doing this?

PS: I'll make sure to get my calcium from other sources and probably gonna eat diary products every now and then ( I can't stop eating pizza )

Yes, if you are intolerant to dairy cutting it will make you feel all around better, and you will recover better. It may not be the dairy itself, but the way it is processed. Raw milk usually doesn't cause the same problems store bought milk does. But raw milk is borderline illegal where I live. You're probably fine with it once in a while, I've noticed I'm fine with dairy in very small doses, but after a certain threshold I feel like crap.

I cut out dairy and noticed a remarkable boost in energy. Well, actually, I went full vegan and noticed a remarkable boost in energy. But I tried drinking milk again the other day and I got stomach cramps and all. Apparently I don't digest it well, which is news to me.

You should at least trial being dairy free. Like, 100% dairy free for at least a month. See if you feel better.

You can get calcium from spinach and kale (at least, I do).

I almost always go diary free. I don't like all my private thoughts in one easily stolen place.

I'd try a two step process. Try taking out the fresh milk and stick with the fermented dairy for a while. Then after a few weeks try to phase that out as well and see what differences you notice. Fermented milk products are partially pre-digested, so they might not be a problem.

If you are intolerant the benfits are clear, otherwise i see no benefits other than what urban legends could say.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactase_persistence

If you're not lactose intolerant, no need to go dairy free. Theorically, no need to go dairy free even if you're lactose intolerant. As mentioned earlier, fermented dairy should not have lactose left in it, thus removing the problem.

Do research dairy, though. Even with lactose out of the way, some would say it's a great factor to cancer because of casein, but it seems to be dependent on the type of casein present in the milk (A1 apparently bad, A2 apparently safe), which is itself dependent on the breed of cow (Holsteins/Frisians => A1, Jerseys/Gurnseys => A2).

That's very roughly summarised but researching it might help you make up your mind whether dairy is good or bad. Bottom line, though, not all dairy is the same.

Start here, this guy is a paleo advocate but basically tells you he doesn't really know if milk is definitely bad, so his approach is definitely honest. You can do further research after you've read this article.

Thanks for the input guys! I'll just cut the milk out of my diet for now (today I've purchased some almond milk to drink when I really feel the need for something other than water) but I'll keep the Greek yogurt. I'll see how it goes and decide from there.

Bro' in the article you linked the author puts a lot of emphasis on how full fat dairy is better that the reduced (or non fat) one. I don't know about the rest of the world, but where I live the pasteurised milk products ( which I know are a worse option than raw milk but here it's really hard to find) are deprived of all their fats and then they are re-added in (2% or 3.5%) based on the demand and on sales projections. I always consume fat free Greek yogurt because it fits into my macros better and I don't think it does that much of a difference as far as health is concerned

While I'm often the first to point out that gluten and lactose intolerance are trendy and over (self) diagnosed, the OP did mention that he was diagnosed as slightly lactose intolerant as a child so it's probably worth investigating.

If it's just a slight intolerance, focusing on fermented dairy as previously mentioned might help the body adapt to better digestion.

I've been dairy free for years. It gives me eczema on my hand whenever I eat it. When I quit, a lot of the body acne I had went away almost immediately.

I'll try and source some studies or something, or someone else here is welcome to correct me on this, but I'm fairly certain that you don't actually absorb much of the calcium in dairy. You're better off with dark green vegetables.

gunslinger_burrito said:

I'll try and source some studies or something, or someone else here is welcome to correct me on this, but I'm fairly certain that you don't actually absorb much of the calcium in dairy. You're better off with dark green vegetables.

Generally speaking, most animal sourced micro-nutrients are better absorbed than their plant counter parts. And most people in modern times have enough calcium in their diet, they're just deficient in other essential micro-nutrients to get it to the right place in the body (d and k2 are the big ones, to my understanding).

thecolin said:

Generally speaking, most animal sourced micro-nutrients are better absorbed than their plant counter parts.

Source?

My understanding is that vegetable sourced proteins are almost twice as effective as animal based proteins. But I have heard plant based omega 3 is almost completely undigested compared to fish sourced omega 3.

So I'm going to want to see some conclusive evidence one way or another on this one. You've intrigued me...

Interesting stuff. I hadn't concidered multi step processing. It also makes sense that things that sit around in your digestive system for longer will have more of their total nutrients extracted from them.

I have to question though whether it's true bioavailability of the nutrients, or just a simple overload. Would the same amount of nutrients be more or less bio available in a plant based diet? I know I made that point about slow digestion, but there's a case to be made for processing things quickly as well. If something breaks down 3 times as fast, and spends half the being digested, it would still result in more nutrients being extracted.

Of course, all of that is just a model I've made in my head with little basis in reality. I have no idea how this stuff works in real life.

All I know for certain is that switching to vegan has drastically improved how energetic I feel. But it is too soon to tell you if that's temporary, or what effect it has upon my recovery.

Any information anyone chooses to share with me on the subject will be very much appreciated.

Bipocni said:

Would the same amount of nutrients be more or less bio available in a plant based diet?

Here's one take on it: http://chriskresser.com/why-you-should-think-twice-about-vegetarian-and-vegan-diets

Though speaking more generally, I don't think exactly our understanding of how our body interacts with micro nutrients is fully developed yet: http://nautil.us/issue/15/turbulence/fruits-and-vegetables-are-trying-to-kill-you

Lastly, here's a long look at the health effects of meat consumption (it's a very long, multi-part series, but well worth a read): http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.it/2014/10/is-meat-unhealthy-part-i.html

The main thrust of the last two articles is that this is all really complicated and we have lots still to learn.

Our of curiosity, why did you switch to a vegan diet?

thecolin said:

Our of curiosity, why did you switch to a vegan diet?

Environmental reasons.

Elucidating: meat is a very inefficient use of resources. Even ignoring the carbon footprint problem (because that could presumably be solved) it still takes hundreds of times the biomass of plants to get the equivalent quantity of meat. This means more water, land and nitrogen needs to be consumed in order to meet production demands.

We have limited amounts of these things, and we're already dangerously close to exceeding the limits on them.

I'm not saying people shouldn't eat meat. I'm just saying as a species we consume a little bit too much of it, and I don't want us to go extinct as a result.

I prefer time tested conclusions. One that works the best for me are the people of Okinawa, Japan. I lived there for 3 years. They have the largest number of people over 100 years old each. All of them healthy and active. The only society that comes close to them are the people of Krete. Lots of centurians. Both of their diets include meat. You obviously need more than that. But seeing how the grand majority of all the healthiest people in the world include meat in their diet, it's safe to say that it's a good source of nutrients. The moment vegans start out living everyone who eat meat of any kind, then I'll listen. Just a frame of reference, Okinawa boasts over 900 people who surpassed 100 years old. They have a yearly festival to celebrate the old. I forget how old the current oldest person is, but it's an okinawan woman. If you want sources, it's a Google search away. This is a very well known fact, so it's not hard to find.

But back to the original topic. If you're lactose intolerant. You need to either cut out dairy or severely minimize it as apart of your diet. Also consider taking lact-aid when you do ingest dairy. If you make a drastic diet change from anywhere from 1-2 weeks and stick with it, you will see immediate results. Top two things everyone should do is drink enough water and eat more veggies. That's something we can all agree on.

Nick Roy said:

The moment vegans start out living everyone who eat meat of any kind, then I'll listen.

....to vegans that claim that a vegan diet is healthier.

There are tons of reasons to be vegan, and health claims are just one of them. I actually disbelieve a vegan diet is healthier. There are certain things like bone broth or kefir that are just so super good for you, and vegans definitely miss out on some vital nutrients.

Just wanted to make my stance on that clear, because I felt like I was being singled out in some way.

Shit, is this why vegans are so uppity all the time? What have I become?

Sorry bipocni, I didn't intend to single you out. dealt with some really annoying vegans within the past two days that I guess I had a jaded moment when you brought up the topic. I'm wrong for that, I apologize. My intention was to end any debate that might form here before it got started. But there wasn't one so I more or less just made an ass of myself

Nick Roy said:

Sorry bipocni, I didn't intend to single you out.

Hey don't worry about it. At this point, I've basically hijacked the thread, so I deserve whatever's coming to me

Bipocni said:

There are tons of reasons to be vegan, and health claims are just one of them.

I don't agree, but I'm not going to berate you on the point. I'd recommend a bit of supplementation if I were you though.

Farmed shellfish is generally quite sustainable and would be an excellent source of some essential micro nutrients that will probably be missing from a vegan diet such as long chain omega-3s and bio-available minerals. Even just once a month would be better than nothing. http://www.treehugger.com/green-food/8-sustainable-sources-of-farmed-fish-seafood.htmlAnd if you have ethical concerns about eating animals, oysters and mussels are about as intelligent as carrots. 

Since most animal bones go to waste, buying them to make bone broth will have zero enviromental impact. In addition to essential minerals, it will also provide you with some gelatin to support healthy joints.

Some sort of fermented food for vitamin K2 will also probably be a good idea. I've never seen any hard numbers on the K2 content in fermented foods aside from natto (fermented soy beans, which is freaking nasty from what I understand). The best sources of K2 are from animal organs and aged cheeses, getting some in your diet is very important for preventing arteriosclerosis. Plants only contain K1 which is not the same thing.

And you'll have to find some B12, it's essential and only found in animals.

thecolin said:

Since most animal bones go to waste, buying them to make bone broth will have zero enviromental impact.

Thank you! I've been hankering after bone broth forever. Only problem is, how can I source ones that will be thrown out instead of commercially available ones? Presumably the ones available in the shops are already being sold and won't go to waste, so it's not quite as simple as you made it appear.

Don't worry, I have no ethical compunctions with eating animals. I consider all living organisms to exist on a spectrum, plants and animals alike. Big respect to the photosynthesising organisms that don't eat anything that was once alive. Other vegans hate me for saying that eating plants is just a compromise.

Anything else that can be ethically sourced in some fashion? I really miss kefir but there's nothing I can do about that I think, cows are just hugely inefficient.

Bipocni said:

Thank you! I've been hankering after bone broth forever. Only problem is, how can I source ones that will be thrown out instead of commercially available ones? Presumably the ones available in the shops are already being sold and won't go to waste, so it's not quite as simple as you made it appear.

 

To me, saying you can't use the bones is like saying you can't use cow manure to grow vegetables. Cows are grown for the meat and milk, all the bones are byproducts from an industrial stand-point. They're being sold in the same way that all the extra bits left over are sold and used in any ways possible, but it's about minimizing waste and increasing profit for the producers. All you're doing is recycling waste. If cows were grown for bones and the meat was thrown away it would be a different situation in terms of supply and demand.

I could probably make a similar argument for organ meat... but it might be a bit of a stretch. 

Quick update: after just 5 days of eliminating milk from my diet I've lost 1 kg (2,2 lbs). That's kind of weird since I'm tracking my macros and I did not reduce calories or change my macros ratio. Kinda frustrating also given that I'm currently trying to gain weight, but whatever

EdStand said:

Quick update: after just 5 days of eliminating milk from my diet I've lost 1 kg (2,2 lbs). That's kind of weird since I'm tracking my macros and I did not reduce calories or change my macros ratio. Kinda frustrating also given that I'm currently trying to gain weight, but whatever