Seiza - Heels together?

In the follow along class Coach Sommer says "heels together" during the seiza sections which is much, much harder for me. I just want to double check that I have this correct.

Together.

And you're welcome.  

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

I physically can not bring heels toes and knees together because my legs are quite big and when I squat my thighs get squished and push apart. What is more important to have together?

Coach Sommer said:

Together.

And you're welcome.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

I suppose I should be grateful for a more intense stretch.

I have the same issue. My ankles are much more flexible when I allow them to "sickle" (heels come apart). Because of this, my ankles automatically roll towards that position when I sit in Seiza. The only way I've been able to keep my heels together is by gripping them with my hands!

My ankles too automatically roll out.  Actually, since I heard that cue, I've looked at my students' feet (covertly) when they do seiza in our martial arts class.  I'd wager 90% have heels apart.  It does not appear to be a natural way to sit for most people (at least in the Western world).

Well, I think allowing your ankles to roll out better aligns the shape of the foot with the floor, making it a more comfortable position to sit in for long periods of time.

Obviously, though, Coach is not trying to find us a comfortable position in the stretch series.

Actually, after doing FS today, I'm noticing that when I hold my heels together, my stretch is a little uneven. Since I have to hold with one hand on top of the other and sit on my hands, my weight is not distributed evenly... I'm currently just switching my hands halfway through the two minutes, but has anyone devised a better strategy?

Also, in SE4 (squatted seiza?) since I have to use my hands to hold my heels, I can't use them to balance. I've been putting a block under my knees to get a similar angle, but does that sufficiently imitate the stretch for the time being until my ankle mobility evens out?

NoHiddenCosts said:

... I have the same issue. My ankles are much more flexible when I allow them to "sickle" (heels come apart) ...

Actually, no they are not.  The sickling outward is avoiding ROM; not increasing it.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

During a yoga class some time ago we used a strap to keep heels together. Maybe this can do the trick for you at the beginning.

I managed toget my heals and toes together but my knees still can't physically touch. Thighs get in the way. I don't feel any stretch at all with heels together though.

I see! Thank you for the clarification, Coach.

@mehowte, that's a good idea. I can probably use my rings straps to wrap my ankles together!

I find I can keep my heels together in the squatted seiza, and with a nice stretch, however in sitted seiza, with feet elevated, I simply can't. My hips can't sit on my calfs when i am in correct form with heels together. As others have mentioned, the heels turn out.  If i raise up to the point at which i can have heels together I am not getting any stretch, am unable to sit on my heels and performing an unintentional sort of half kneeling squat hold.(made-up name for what is hard to describe)

I tried rolling up a towel and placing it in the crotch of my knees so i was able to sit my weight down, as per correct form but slightly elevated from my legs because of the towel. This way I was able to feel a stretch in the feet,with heels together and sitting my weight down rather than floating.

I hope this helps anyone with this particular issue, however despite the fact that this feels good, I hope coach or one of the advanced members can chime in to tell us if this is appropriate as I have no wish to deviate from the form unless completely necessary.

Hope that description makes sense.

Christian

Yes heels together is a lot harder. For me this means in the curled toe seiza that i actually have to elevate my knees and rest them on a stretch block. The stretch does feel more intense compared to heels apart and knees on floor. Anybody else experiencing the same with curled toe seiza?

Is it possible that this can be due to bone structure?

I can kneel upright (hips straight, knees bent 90 degees) and keep both knees and heels together comfortably, with the ankle almost straight.  

As I lower to a sitting position, keeping both the knees and heels together becomes impossible without applying significant external force, regardless of the angle of the ankle.  When I'm sitting on my heels, I can't get my heels closer than 2-3 inches without pushing them in with my hands.

I don't feel this as any kind of tightness or pain.  It just feels like it would require my lower leg to move in a way that I can't make it move.  Like my knee would have to rotate.  Maybe that's why it works when the knee is only bent 90 degrees?  

Interestingly, I remember when I was a kid my mom telling me to make an effort to walk with my toes pointed out.  My natural tendency was for my toes to point inward.

I know Coach said together.  I'd just like to confirm if that should be possible for everyone.  I feel like if I focus on keeping my heels together I might be missing the main point of this stretch.

No, it is not congenital.

No, there is not another acceptable technique.

And NO also to whatever excuse you are all going to come up with next.

If you are unable to sit in seiza with your heels and toes together you have tight ankles. Accept it, deal with it and let's move on.

Sit properly with toes and heels together. If necessary elevate the glutes as needed to achieve this position.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Coach does it matter if my knees are apart? I literally can not get them together but my thighs still touch. Also I don really feel the a stretch but I guess I feel something just not sure what it is have an old ankle injury and this is exactly what I need right now.

If I use a strap wrapped around from the front of both feet to the heels I can get into the correct position and get some really new feelings during the stretch that I don't get otherwise. I can also work deeper into the stretch. I assume that over time I will no longer need the strap as the tissues will have adjusted to the new position.

Anyone have feedback on that? 

I do have the same issue and thought that it was impossible to bring the heels together but I've just tried it with glutes a little elevated and that works. That's the way I'm going to do it now and trying to eliminate the elevation over time.

Let's add a further refinement here.  

My primary concern is that you do not allow your ankles to 'sickle' outward; sickling should be avoided at all times.  By sickling I mean where the shin, ankle and heel are not in a straight line, but the ankles are allowed to press outward to the side.  This takes the stretch off the tibialis which is unacceptable as that is exactly where we want the stretch to be.

When this stretch is performed correctly, it should feel as though the crease of your ankle is pressing strongly forward.

 If however your lower leg (shin, ankle and heel) are all in a straight line, be honest!, then I have no issue with the heels being slightly apart.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

I've done these stretches a few times since I started the thread. It's a totally different stretch with the heels together, I'm really struggling with the curled toes and elevated knees version but I'm definitely noticing progress.

I think it was Cole who recommended it, but I tried tying the ankles together with a leather belt. It worked perfectly and I did it cold just to see how it would fit. Felt the stretch much more strongly in the front of the lower leg and ankle.

if ankles move outside is a typical way of compensation , it happens in different joints, if you cannot move on one direction, you move to the other. think about dislocate, when you reach your vertical limit the arm moves to the side on external rotation to compensate.

Does this also apply to curled seiza? It's the only one that I can't get heels together (if I do the stretch becomes only on the big toes/ball of feet).

dritar said:

Does this also apply to curled seiza? It's the only one that I can't get heels together (if I do the stretch becomes only on the big toes/ball of feet).

All 3 seiza forms