Which course i should start with?

Hi there,

i am new in this place and i need to know which course i should start with. I can do a straddle planche, front and back lever, one arm handstand in different positions on both arms, backflip, front flip, backhandspring, thomas flares and a some other stuff. My biggest problem is my upper back and my shoulders.My bridge is really bad. I am working on my flexibility and started to do loaded stretches. It helps but i think i need a couch. Thats why i am here. Waiting for answers.....

Thx

Jimmy 

Hey, Jimmy! It sounds like you've already got a decent amount of experience. Nice job on the levers and handstands!

If you're looking to gain flexibility, I'd suggest you first look at the stretch courses. The thoracic spine one would be particularly helpful for developing your bridge. 

Thanks Joshua,

what do you think about foundation 1 and handstand 1? 

They're excellent courses, but they require a lot of humility and patience, especially for someone like you who has already seen some success in your training. For example, when you can already do a straddle planche, it might seem like a waste of your time to spend a few years working on easier planche progressions. It's important to keep in mind the philosophy of the program. The program culminates with the front-lever, side-lever, manna, etc, but achieving these movements is not program's primary purpose. As the name implies, the primary purpose of the program is to lay down a solid foundation on top of which much more advanced strength can be developed. This requires not just good maximal strength, but also excellent work capacity and mobility, as well as structural balance. I find it helps to think of the programming as being less about developing strength, and more about systematically identifying and eliminating weaknesses. 

If you're thinking of doing the program, you should first ask yourself what you want to get out of your training. Foundation is often not fun, and its likely to be a few years before you start working on any of the big "flashy" skills. On the other hand, once you've completed it you'll be in phenomenal shape, possess excellent joint health, have a lot of cool tricks under your belt, and be well positioned for learning some more advanced rings strength.

I will try the stretching course and then i will decide if i go further for the handstand 1. Thanks so far.....

Just started the GB Starter Pack...

Joshua Slocum said:

They're excellent courses, but they require a lot of humility and patience, especially for someone like you who has already seen some success in your training. For example, when you can already do a straddle planche, it might seem like a waste of your time to spend a few years working on easier planche progressions. It's important to keep in mind the philosophy of the program. The program culminates with the front-lever, side-lever, manna, etc, but achieving these movements is not program's primary purpose. As the name implies, the primary purpose of the program is to lay down a solid foundation on top of which much more advanced strength can be developed. This requires not just good maximal strength, but also excellent work capacity and mobility, as well as structural balance. I find it helps to think of the programming as being less about developing strength, and more about systematically identifying and eliminating weaknesses. 

 

If you're thinking of doing the program, you should first ask yourself what you want to get out of your training. Foundation is often not fun, and its likely to be a few years before you start working on any of the big "flashy" skills. On the other hand, once you've completed it you'll be in phenomenal shape, possess excellent joint health, have a lot of cool tricks under your belt, and be well positioned for learning some more advanced rings strength.

I don't have anything to add here, but that the line in bold above is a good thing to be reminded of occasionally.

Joshua Slocum said:

They're excellent courses, but they require a lot of humility and patience, especially for someone like you who has already seen some success in your training. For example, when you can already do a straddle planche, it might seem like a waste of your time to spend a few years working on easier planche progressions. It's important to keep in mind the philosophy of the program. The program culminates with the front-lever, side-lever, manna, etc, but achieving these movements is not program's primary purpose. As the name implies, the primary purpose of the program is to lay down a solid foundation on top of which much more advanced strength can be developed. This requires not just good maximal strength, but also excellent work capacity and mobility, as well as structural balance. I find it helps to think of the programming as being less about developing strength, and more about systematically identifying and eliminating weaknesses. 

 

If you're thinking of doing the program, you should first ask yourself what you want to get out of your training. Foundation is often not fun, and its likely to be a few years before you start working on any of the big "flashy" skills. On the other hand, once you've completed it you'll be in phenomenal shape, possess excellent joint health, have a lot of cool tricks under your belt, and be well positioned for learning some more advanced rings strength.

But for someone at his lvl wouldn't it be enough to tell him to achiveve mastery sets on the some of the higher progressions or the most important ones instead of beginning from scratch?

He has already been told this.  

Everyone has the option of attempting week 11 mastery of both the element and its integrated mobility.  If they pass - great.  The next workout attempt the week 11 mastery sets of the next element.  On a F7 three day a week schedule, it is possible to complete Foundation One, Foundation Two, Foundation Three and Foundation Four within a two month period.

So many beginners come into GB wanting to do more advanced work; despite the fact that they are not yet ready to do so.  The reality is if they were as physically prepared for more advanced work as they think they are; they would be able to pass the week 11 mastery sets.    

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Coach Sommer said:

He has already been told this.  

 

Everyone has the option of attempting week 11 mastery of both the element and its integrated mobility.  If they pass - great.  The next workout attempt the week 11 mastery sets of the next element.  On a F7 three day a week schedule, it is possible to complete Foundation One, Foundation Two, Foundation Three and Foundation Four within a two month period.

 

So many beginners come into GB wanting to do more advanced work; despite the fact that they are not yet ready to do so.  The reality is if they were as physically prepared for more advanced work as they think they are; they would be able to pass the week 11 mastery sets.    

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Let us say someone can't demonstrate mastery for PE1 for Hollow back progrossesions. Isn't possible for that person to start at PE2 and work for mastery at that level instead of PE1? (For those who have F1 knows the difference between the two.) I am just trying to understand if it is really necessary to start at the absolute bottom.

Hollow Man said:

Let us say someone can't demonstrate mastery for PE1 for Hollow back progrossesions. Isn't possible for that person to start at PE2 and work for mastery at that level instead of PE1? (For those who have F1 knows the difference between the two.) I am just trying to understand if it is really necessary to start at the absolute bottom.

For your specific example, PE1 and PE2 are the exact same plane of movement and ROM. The only difference is the leverage on PE1 is less than on PE2. If one is not able to complete PE1, he or she has no business moving to PE2, as their strength in this movement pattern is clearly not adequate to be increasing the difficulty of the exercise. 

aiken54 said:

 

For your specific example, PE1 and PE2 are the exact same plane of movement and ROM. The only difference is the leverage on PE1 is less than on PE2. If one is not able to complete PE1, he or she has no business moving to PE2, as their strength in this movement pattern is clearly not adequate to be increasing the difficulty of the exercise. 

 

 

 

Ok.

Hollow Man said:

Let us say someone can't demonstrate mastery for PE1 for Hollow back progrossesions. Isn't possible for that person to start at PE2 and work for mastery at that level instead of PE1? 

No, it is not.  

If you are not strong/mobile enough to demonstrate mastery of PE1, you have no business attempting to move on to PE2.

You must demonstrate mastery of each element in the proper order.  The sooner everyone stops trying to avoid addressing their deficiencies the sooner they will begin making solid progress.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Hollow Man said:

But for someone at his lvl wouldn't it be enough to tell him to achiveve mastery sets on the some of the higher progressions or the most important ones instead of beginning from scratch?

The purpose of foundation is not simply to develop the end movements. It's to develop strength, work capacity, mobility and joint health. The rationale behind everyone starting at PE1 is that by going through *all* the progressions, you can systematically identify and eliminate any deficiencies you may have in those areas.

For me the greatest part of the Foundation Series is that when you'll achieve the final movements not only you'll able to safely train those but you'll have a large number of other skills (not to mention the mobility part of it). Why would you want to miss some of them?

Coach Sommer said:

He has already been told this.  

 

Everyone has the option of attempting week 11 mastery of both the element and its integrated mobility.  If they pass - great.  The next workout attempt the week 11 mastery sets of the next element.  On a F7 three day a week schedule, it is possible to complete Foundation One, Foundation Two, Foundation Three and Foundation Four within a two month period.

 

So many beginners come into GB wanting to do more advanced work; despite the fact that they are not yet ready to do so.  The reality is if they were as physically prepared for more advanced work as they think they are; they would be able to pass the week 11 mastery sets.    

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Two months?! Good god. Studliness, indeed.

After two years on Foundation, I am realizing the strength obtained from the "easy" PEs makes you stronger on the later PEs without even training them yet. It's pretty cool to experience that first hand.

Stephen M said:

After two years on Foundation, I am realizing the strength obtained from the "easy" PEs makes you stronger on the later PEs without even training them yet. It's pretty cool to experience that first hand.

They create a surplus of strength which makes it easier to progress later on.

A simple concept really, but there are so many people "not getting it"

Coach, do you know of anyone who has bought the Foundation programs who incorporated F7 and passed all four levels in two months? I'm just wondering, so I can marvel at their prowess...

We'd have heard about it by now, so I'm gonna guess no.

Daniel Taylor-Shaut said:

Coach, do you know of anyone who has bought the Foundation programs who incorporated F7 and passed all four levels in two months? I'm just wondering, so I can marvel at their prowess...

Foundation isn't 'standard' gymnast level.... even someone like Gregor who was seriously strong is unlikely to meet the mobility requirements.

Coach is doing his level best to make us all exceptionally prepared amongst gymnasts. Who wants to work their butt off to be average?

Bro said:

We'd have heard about it by now, so I'm gonna guess no.

So then it's just a hypothetical. Sigh...

Well maybe if Kohei Uchimura bought Foundation then we'd hear about it...