Redwan Haque Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKMKRC-dnAE#t=590 Can someone please explain what the hell just happened here? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Reipert Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 this actually reminds me of the demonstration some obscure martial arts gurus give like this one: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Wadle Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I'm surprised Poliquin would stoop to such levels. What a bunch of baloney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Macdonald Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I'm not shocked. Poliquin's site is full of miracle supplements and '10 amazing fat busting tips' click-bait garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmet Doherty Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Instead of decrying bullsh!t on this. I tried it on one of the trainers on the gym. Trainer in question is an out and out Poliquin hater. We had a goniometric 20 degee improvement in flexion. Ymmv 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Burnham Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I'm not shocked. Poliquin's site is full of miracle supplements and '10 amazing fat busting tips' click-bait garbage.Are you talking about the strength sensei site or the poliquin website. He is not affiliated with the poliquin institute anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Macdonald Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Are you talking about the strength sensei site or the poliquin website. He is not affiliated with the poliquin institute anymore. I was referring to the Poliquin website. Thanks for the update, I wasn't aware. Regarding him directly, the whole 'Biosignature modulation' that he invented looks like pseudo science to sell supplements from what I can see. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Reipert Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Instead of decrying bullsh!t on this. I tried it on one of the trainers on the gym. Trainer in question is an out and out Poliquin hater. We had a goniometric 20 degee improvement in flexion. YmmvSo please illuminate te skeptics what he is doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Tseng Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Are we talking about the scraping tool he used? That's called a gua sha, pretty common tool used in the sports medicine world such as athletic training rooms or by massage therapists. Does doing that cause such a huge increase in ROM on the hips? I personally don't know enough that. Then again, I've always believed that the face is a very underrated source of tension. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmet Doherty Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 So please illuminate te skeptics what he is doingHonestly I can only speculate on the mechanism but It must have something to do with releasing the tension around the area of the 7th cranial nerve. I'm going to be re-testing the guy today to see if the ROM has stayed or was temporary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwan Haque Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 Not particularly interested in the tool. I get that he's doing some kind of myofascial release technique... have come across some names 'Graston tehcnique', 'Active Release Technique' etc. What I'm wondering is how doing any of that on the masseter has any effect on the abductors and hamstrings?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Aldag Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Are you talking about the strength sensei site or the poliquin website. He is not affiliated with the poliquin institute anymore. I did not know that! I did a quick google and couldn't find anything about it. Do you know the site where he talks about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chigiskob Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) Not particularly interested in the tool. I get that he's doing some kind of myofascial release technique... have come across some names 'Graston tehcnique', 'Active Release Technique' etc. What I'm wondering is how doing any of that on the masseter has any effect on the abductors and hamstrings?? It didn't. Are we all watching the same video? A "guru" in a quiet environment with many onlookers does something that looks like magic and in reality everyone in the room should have inquired about what the hell he was doing but probably didn't dare be "that person". The guy doing the horrible snatch before the miraculous procedure is clearly acting for the camera. Classic charlatan, snake oil salesman technique ("instant, unbelievable results for the low, low price of..."). Does it surprise anyone that a recently joined poster is in this thread already doing damage control and shilling? Edited October 30, 2014 by chigiskob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward Smith Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Jules, He mentioned it when he started his new facebook account and they had it a small release on the Poliquin group site when it occured. Emmet, I have never seen anyone at anytime have a permanent change in flexibility after a single session of manual therapy or after a stretching session. Imagine that is akin to expecting permanent strength increases after a single session. I would advise you to look up Andreo Spina (he has a program called FRC) on facebook and youtube, he has some excellent info on all this stuff, coincidentally very similar to what Coach Sommer's style/pphilosophy regarding mobility/flexibility. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COURTNEY STUBBS Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 I believe he is using corrective stretching techniques to temporarily increase ROM, for the person in the 9.55 clip to open his shoulders, hips and relax neck muscles which run along the jaw muscles. Notice the person cannot hold the bar over his head due to tight shoulders and there is a lot of tension in his facial and neck muscles which he runs the risk of straining. The person’s glutes, adductors, achilles also seem tight to me as he is having difficulty transiting into the squat position while holding the bar above his head, this could cause him lower back issues.This is why courses like Foundation series need to be made more widely available. To be fair to Poliquin, he is having to make best with not so ideal circumstances as the person in the 9.55 clip is working on OL which is too advanced for his level and you can’t just turn somebody away from an seminar once they have paid to participate in the event. Anyway I could be wrong, maybe a physiotherapist can response to this thread . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesley Tan Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Hi guys, thanks Adriano for pointing this out to me and apologies for the delay in responding.Okay, so the video shows someone applying a direct soft tissue technique to the masster muscles. Now the masseter are very powerful muscles indeed and I believe are capable of producing the most pounds of pressure than other muscle in the human body. Masseter is innervated by the trigeminal nerve (cranial nerve 5) as are all the other muscles of mastication (chewing) and unlike the muscles of facial expression which are innervated by the facial nerve. This is important because the two different muscle groups will have different nerve centres within the brain and the connections or synapses with other areas. The jaw is considered a limb, the first limb in terms of evolutionary development, and I say this because of a link to the extremities (limbs) in terms of neural control. As a side note and an example of neural connections, the jaw can frequently be seen to be off centre in cases of spinal scoliosis.The trigeminal nerve is also responsible for the sensation of pain in the entire face and head, and is very closely related to the nerve centres of the upper cervical spine and hence linked closely with the muscles that control head movement and general orientation. All this to say that when you stimulate massater, you have access to a complex neural web. It's definitely not to impossible to produce general drops in overall muscle tone globally and thus have an effect when testing someone's passive ranges of motion. I can spend a short amount time applying various techniques to a person's head, face, neck and jaw that can definitely produces changes like those you see in the video, even better induce sleep. Interestingly if you were to test a persons passive range of motion during sleep and whilst awake you would get different results, because of the relxation in muscle tone from the nerve centres in the brain.Saying that, any changes would definielty be temporary. However, if you do something regularly enough it will change. What we do with our training as apply consistent neural stimulation, stretches and loads etc repeatidly over time and this causes the nervous system to adapt, change as it's plastic. So, I now have a pancake where as last year I didn't because not only have my connective tissues grown a little, but my nervous system has changed too. The amount of unconscious tension I hold in certain muscles. Interestingly, high levels of control this unconscious tone becomes conscious and one can relax and lengthen particular muscles at will, literally.I do believe however that the video is a bit staged and exaggerated, the guy testing could easily just have applied more force second time round. It's an art, working with your hands and guiding someone else's nervous system and experience. There is a lot of art in the science of Osteopathy 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesley Tan Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 I hope that helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Mutch Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Not particularly interested in the tool. I get that he's doing some kind of myofascial release technique... have come across some names 'Graston tehcnique', 'Active Release Technique' etc. What I'm wondering is how doing any of that on the masseter has any effect on the abductors and hamstrings??I'm not saying whether I agree or not that this video is legit, but I thought I'd shed some light on how seemingly unrelated structures in the body can be related. The nervous system is vastly complex (oftentimes more than we'd like to admit). Multiple muscle groups and their innervations are contiguous, meaning not only is structure A connected to B and B connected to C, but A is also connected to C and C back to A and B. Just as the body has local reflex responses (the knee jerk reflex is probably the most well known), it also has global reflexes hardwired into muscle patterning. For example exercise physiologists and trainers have been utilizing these types of reflexes that have been known for decades in the neurology community to "activate or inhibit" the extensor muscle groups or flexor muscle groups on a global level. Check out www.amnacademy.com or http://zhealtheducation.com/ for more info. An example of one well documented reflex utilizes eye movement patterning to facilitate flexor or extensor muscle groups depending on which direction the eyes are gazing. Hope this helps some of you expand your knowledge of the body Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Chubb Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I've gotten the chance to actually attend these seminars rather than just call it snake oil without trying it and the techniques involved do work. Don't write things off just because you don't understand them. You'll miss some good things with that attitude. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Leeming Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I tried it, and there was a definite effect. It made my face hurt. No change in mopbility though. Quite disappointed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick laughlin Laughlin Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKMKRC-dnAE#t=590 Can someone please explain what the hell just happened here?I see your voodoo and raise you....more voodoo! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnGf40-yiO0#t=113 Okay....maybe not as much voodoo. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Reipert Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 i think this might be interesting for some: i saw a different guy demonstrate the technique on a person i know. the improvement of ROM was much smaller but it was definitely there. the difference is: the guy doing it explained what he did. it is all about setting of the flight-or-flght-response. what he actually does is causing pain on his jaw muscles on purpose. it is not about some active-release-techniques or massaging the jaw - it is about pain. this pain will shift the minds focus and tell the brain to go into survival mode which temporarily increases flexibility. check the video out below: (relevant part starts at 21:00, rest is still highly recommended) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Leaman Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 It's an old ART trick. Release the masseter and it releases the hamstring. I'm no fascia or anatomy expert, but I can tell you it works. I use to use it to sell personal training packages b/c it makes you look like some voodoo Jedi master. I wonder what Leahy thinks about his ART techniques being used to sell someone else's "new" system. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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