Please Help IF

[Patrick Cain]

Hey Guys,

 

I have been doing Intermittent Fasting for the past year.    I have went down from 210 to 188 slowly to minimize muscle loss.  The only place I have fat really is around my belly button and I know that will pass in time.   I eat clean 90 percent of the time.  My eating window is 10/6 or 12/6.   I am ready to pack on the mass again and I am working through the F! and H! series.  Does anyone have any tips on maximizing growth while IF

[Luka Kopusar]

there is a simple formula for gaining mass, just eat like a madman, especially if on IF, u need to get as much calories as possible, for what i know, u only have 2-3 meals per day? 

[Luzian Scherrer]

I have been doing Intermittent Fasting for the past year.    I have went down from 210 to 188 slowly to minimize muscle loss.  The only place I have fat really is around my belly button and I know that will pass in time.   I eat clean 90 percent of the time.  My eating window is 10/6 or 12/6.   I am ready to pack on the mass again and I am working through the F! and H! series.  Does anyone have any tips on maximizing growth while IF

I'm also doing F/H series with IF (16/8). Are you training in the fasted state and are you using BCAAs?

[Patrick Cain]

I usually have a raisens or some type of fruit pwo and a whey shake with coconut milk that is about 900 calories, then I usually have meat nuts cheese and more fruit through ou the day and a dinner at home.  I have been taking in around 2500 calories during my cutting phase and I plan to up it to 3000 on wo days and 2500 on non.    I do not use bcaa I don't think they are necesarry.  I powerlifted before GST after fasting for 12 plus hours with no problems.  My main concern is it seems easier to figure out the calories I need while lifting weights vice bodyweight.  Also I am going to do a 10/14 window now to make room for more food

[Luzian Scherrer]

That's very interesting. I do 16/8, eating from 1pm to 9pm and I do the training 6am first thing in the morning. Before workout, after workout and around 10am again I do take about 7 grams of BCAAs because that's what Berkhan recommends. But first those BCAAs are expensive and second I'm not really sure if they are necessary or even having any real effect at all. I would be glad if someone could assure me that I can safely drop the BCAAs without taking any disadvantages.

[Patrick Cain]

The theory behind the BCAA is they prevent muscle wasting.   THey are not needed because our bodies produce growth hormone while we are in a fasted state that preserves muscle and burns fat and it contributes to growth also.  You dont have to worry about muscle loss unitl you go almost 3 days without food.   if you wait 6 hours to eat after you workout you will be dropping fat super fast! 

[Aaro Helander]

I've been doing IF with different timing schedules for 2½ years now. I usually train with BCAA:s. Training without them probably won't have any significant effect, and surely not when you're training H1 material and stuff like that. As stated, fasting increases GH which helps mobilize fat and preserve muscle mass.

 

What I do myself for some lean gains is eating a bit over my maintenance for a couple of months, then doing a Extreme Rapid Fatloss Diet by Lyle McD for like four to five days and get myself back to around 7-8% bodyfat. This is just my personal preference, and unless you gain a mental edge from being pretty ripped, it is probably not wise going below 10%.

 

The general guidelines for optimal hormonal environment and mass gains is bulking slowly until you're 15% bodyfat, then cutting down to 10% and repeating.

[Luzian Scherrer]

7-8% bodyfat is pretty impressive.

 

Two question about the "Extreme Rapid Fatloss Diet" by Lyle McD, which sounds interesting to me:

1. How do you integrate it with the F/H program? Just pause for one week? Or during deload week?
2. Is it just a diet program or does it also contain an exercise/workout plan?

That booklet is pretty inexpensive, so I might give it a try...

 

 

[Aaro Helander]

7-8% bodyfat is pretty impressive.

 

Two question about the "Extreme Rapid Fatloss Diet" by Lyle McD, which sounds interesting to me:

1. How do you integrate it with the F/H program? Just pause for one week? Or during deload week?
2. Is it just a diet program or does it also contain an exercise/workout plan?

That booklet is pretty inexpensive, so I might give it a try...

What I didn't mention is that the Extreme-RFL is kind of an add-on to the original Rapid Fatloss book, so it's very brief and only updates some core aspects, and assumes that you are familiar with the original title to a degree.

 

Anyways, since it's so cheap you could just buy it 

 

The questions:

1. Almost a straight quote: "If you are on a workout program, continue it during the diet. If not, don't start one." There is actually a recommendation for the exercise: 8 hours of walking every day (sounds crazy right? But it's for the most hardcore result oriented professionals). I just workout normally, and just follow the diet plan (only protein for the days).
2. So, I actually answered both of the questions. For convenience, train as you would normally, or (maybe better) do it during the deload. The diet is only a couple of days long (Lyle argues that the most up to date research shows that for people with no need to create habitual changes, the faster your diet is over, the better and long-living the results will be.

[Luzian Scherrer]

Thanks for the answers! My deload is coming up next week... I might give it a try

[Luzian Scherrer]

I've read the two books over the weekend and I am right now writing this on the treadmill in the last 30 minutes of the 8 hour walk on day 4. That was an interesting experience

[Aaro Helander]

Epic!

 

How do you feel about it?

[Luzian Scherrer]

Walking 8h/day is harder than I thought, but the interesting thing is: I never had any problem with hunger at all. I usually eat very healthy but I eat quite a lot. Did everything exactly according to the instructions.

[Aaro Helander]

Yeah, I envy your effort for pulling it off by the book!

 

How about the fat loss, got what you expected?

[Luzian Scherrer]

Thanks I'll do the final measurement tomorrow morning and will report you the results...

[Luzian Scherrer]

Here is the measurement on the morning after those 4 days:

 

Before:

  Weight 76kg

  Bodyfat ~10.5%

 

After:

  Weight 73kg

  Bodyfat ~8.1%

 

Conclusion:

I've probably lost about 2 kg fat and 1 kg lean mass. But keep in mind that the measurement is made with a caliper - it is not that accurate at all. Judging in the mirror the figures seem to be realistic though. And it was an interesting experience anyway

[Aaro Helander]

That's pretty nice!

 

 Lyle also mentioned that the fat loss should continue for at least a week if you are able to stay at roughly maintenance calories after the diet phase.