sPL/SE3 - Progress stalled. Plan?

I've stalled out on sPL/SE3 tuck planche.

 

Lately I've been trying to split up the progression template and progress with two second intervals. Thus I'm currently pursuing 4x22 seconds, but it's not really happening. Whenever I don't hit 22 seconds, usually in set 3 and 4, I rest for ~10 seconds, then finish the set.

 

I've been at this level for three-four months, so I probably need to rethink my approach. Before you ask, yes, I am trying hard, working sPL twice a week, but... My arse drops and my protraction goes regardless.

 

I thought about increasing the frequency, but with my schedule and recovery, I don't think it is a feasible choice.

 

I've been thinking about trying this:

 

Mastery is 5x30 seconds, which equals 150 seconds - So, maybe I could move my work capacity to the next level, if I simply go to the max in every set, until I reach 150 seconds? Then subsequent workouts would focus on reducing the number of sets required to reach 150s.

 

I'm currently holding the tuck planche for ~100 seconds each workout (doing a bonus set after the 4x22s), so the jump in load would be significant, but not devastating.

 

What do you think? Other approaches are welcome.

Just a thought. Perhaps go back to SSC on tuck planche and work to a solid straddle (or full  ) bent-arm planche, both as separate skills, although in the same session. I think the rest is a big contributor to fatiguing, after all you are doing another difficult pushing exercise for 20s then going straight back to tuck planche. Maybe working both ends and becoming proficient in them can accelerate progress, although I would follow Foundation's linear progression for 5x30s once you master both of those positions I outline above.

I'm presently working the same, Ravn.  I'm at 5 x 20 seconds.  I'm working with much greater rest intervals, more like max strength type intervals.  Once I get to 5 x 30 seconds I'll bring down the rest intervals.  The mobility (iM) really slows progress on this one because it's so exhausting itself.  But it's nice to see strength progress with longer rest intervals, then I think not quite so demoralizing as you work the rest period down.  I'm also doing them on parallettes, which are easier than the ground, then once I master a time on parallettes I do it again from the ground.  Gives me increased variety so i don't get bored spending a lot of time here.  Good luck to you.

about half a year with this oneabout half a year with hthis exercise. i would go down with the time setted. even if you stay for long time with 6 sec and 1 rep mobility. i made the mistake with getting to quick to high and could not handle it for all sets.

now i am at 4x18sec with 3 reps of benta arm straddle. it is still hard but much better. for me a very hard pair of exercises.

i do it on the floor since the beginning and pointing with fingers outside helped me to put the pressure away from the wristsand protract and depress my shoulderblades better.

An approach I have been experimenting with on high rep and long duration hold excercises, is to supplement the regular training schedule with single sets of extra high reps/long holds. I work the 3 days/week schedule which leaves me plenty of recovery, so there is room for focusing extra attention on those elements that are problematic at any given time. Then, whenever I feel like it, I will do a single set of a high number of reps (more than I am currently doing in the regular training, so for instance, if I am doing an excercise for 5x24 reps, I will do single sets of 30 or 40 reps). 

Also, I have left the regular work sets at the same level for a couple of microcycles.

Then when I do my work sets, they feel a little like deload because I stop them long before I am used to. The effect may be mostly psychological, but it has helped me a lot lately.

Kasper Stangerup said:

An approach I have been experimenting with on high rep and long duration hold excercises, is to supplement the regular training schedule with single sets of extra high reps/long holds. I work the 3 days/week schedule which leaves me plenty of recovery, so there is room for focusing extra attention on those elements that are problematic at any given time. Then, whenever I feel like it, I will do a single set of a high number of reps (more than I am currently doing in the regular training, so for instance, if I am doing an excercise for 5x24 reps, I will do single sets of 30 or 40 reps). 

Also, I have left the regular work sets at the same level for a couple of microcycles.

Then when I do my work sets, they feel a little like deload because I stop them long before I am used to. The effect may be mostly psychological, but it has helped me a lot lately.

I like the idea, but am worried that messing with the recovery of a straight arm element could mess with my elbows. I'll think about it!

Even though you can already do 5x20 sec tuck planche holds, perhaps you could move a step back and use a light rubber band tied around your waist and around a pullup bar/rings to decrease the weight you have to carry, and build up to 5x30 seconds (or more) with that? Once you can do that, you could try it again without rubber band and you may be able to move beyond your sticking point.

 

Personally I’m weak in the planche (I cannot even do a tuck planche yet). To be able to gradually build up towards it, I’ve chosen to train it by using different sizes of rubber bands to decrease the weight I have to carry. Since I started doing that, my progress has been very good and I’ve been able to systematically lower the resistance and build up to long holds, something that many months of planche leans (12+) have not been able to achieve. Maybe the same technique is beneficial for you?

I used to think bands were for wimps - as I learnt pull ups in the days before bands and assistance machines - but they have definitely helped me out with many a PE and iM, so now I think they are very useful in overcoming a sticking point.

I agree with the info on the bands set out here. I was always against the use of band assistance, but later found/learned that bands are quite helpful with static position training, just not with dynamic movements. So band assisted pullups, not helpful. Band assisted planche training can be quite helpful, though i'm not sure it'll help a lot once you have 20 second hold. One option may be using bands to help you do the next SE4, or even a full straddle planche if the band support is enough, so that as you come back to SE3 it will be easier. the benefit to using bands to assist is you will protect your elbows more than you would by adding in a lot more volume.

...Or I could perhaps do the main work sets of 4x22, then do 3-4 sets of assistance work with bands to up the volume?

 

Lots of good ideas here, now I just need Coach to establish some order. Coach, what's the final verdict?

I too have started experimenting with bands in my tuck planche training. Time will tell if it works or not. All I know is that I have no problem with advanced frog stand or planche leans but my tuck isn't anywhere close - the jump in load is just too large. In the absence of a spotter, bands it is!

Have you thought about greasing the groove (GTG)? You could try doing short submaximal holds throughout the day for a total of 150seconds daily (with maybe 1 or 2 days off per week), slowly increasing the duration of the submaximal holds as you get stronger. I don't think this approach would affect your recovery due to the fact that the holds will be submaximal and separated by long rest intervals. 

 

I found this to be a easy and effective approach back when I was only training the planche and front lever. The only problem is having the time and freedom to intersperse the multiple sets throughout the day. I also believe Jon once mentioned that he became really strong at planche push-ups by literally doing hundreds of reps throughout the day in a GTG fashion. 

-MR said:

Have you thought about greasing the groove (GTG)? You could try doing short submaximal holds throughout the day for a total of 150seconds daily (with maybe 1 or 2 days off per week), slowly increasing the duration of the submaximal holds as you get stronger. I don't think this approach would affect your recovery due to the fact that the holds will be submaximal and separated by long rest intervals. 

 

I found this to be a easy and effective approach back when I was only training the planche and front lever. The only problem is having the time and freedom to intersperse the multiple sets throughout the day. I also believe Jon once mentioned that he became really strong at planche push-ups by literally doing hundreds of reps throughout the day in a GTG fashion. 

I've thought about it, but GTG mainly improves max strength by optimising neural pathways. My issue isn't really strength, as I can easily hold the tuck planche, and also the next progression, open planche. I've gotta find a method that specifically targets my endurance. Also, I'm a bit cautious about increasing the frequency, as I've gotten injuries from that approach in the past.

 

But, ultimately you may be as correct as anyone else in this thread. The challenge is picking the right suggestion.

Ravn said:

I've thought about it, but GTG mainly improves max strength by optimising neural pathways. My issue isn't really strength, as I can easily hold the tuck planche, and also the next progression, open planche. I've gotta find a method that specifically targets my endurance. Also, I'm a bit cautious about increasing the frequency, as I've gotten injuries from that approach in the past.

 

But, ultimately you may be as correct as anyone else in this thread. The challenge is picking the right suggestion.

Yeah, I don't know that anyone really has the answer based on the innumerable threads on ABH/PE1 and HBP/PE2. You may just have to pick an approach and work on it for a month or two to see how it works. One question though, what's your max hold in the tuck planche? If it's less than 60 seconds, I would still consider the GTG approach as I got a 60 second tuck planche that way; I started off literally doing 30 x 2 second holds throughout the day, quickly moved to 6 x 10s holds within a week or two, and then progressively got to the point where I could do a single 60 second hold. It did take 4-5 months though, so it may not be more effective than any of the other methods mentioned.

 

Let us know if you figure it out, we could all benefit from each other's experience. 

I will definitely share my experiences, we're learning together here.

 

I haven't tested my max, but I doubt that I can hold tuck planche for 60s. Perhaps in the 35-40 range? I've been thinking about doing max holds until I've accumulated 150s, that'd be one way to find out.

Bump for Coach's opinion (or GB mods/trainers). 

I would be very interested to hear the Coach's opinion aswell. SE3 is the sticking point for nearly everyone attempting the planche. I know several people that are plateauing here. Also, from personal experience, I disagree that mastering PL leans or frog have any impact on the strength development for long Tuck Planche holds. For me, their benefit is learning the correct shoulder position and preparing the wrists, which is obviously important, but does not translate to more strength.

 

I am currently at 4x18s, but 5x30s is a huge volume... With perfect form and very little rest the mastery req ist pretty insane. I am currently allowing myself a lot of rest between sets as this is clearly a max strength exercise and there is no way to complete it otherwise, especially with the IM, which is a taxing strength exercise aswell.

 

Planche is a very frustrating element altogether... I am very strong in triceps stregth and pushing in general, but have been unable to achieve a solid straddle planche in the last two years of training for it (6+ months on Foundation). But I won't give up on it until I've got it ;D 

Georgios Koliopoulos said:

I am currently at 4x18s, but 5x30s is a huge volume... With perfect form and very little rest the mastery req ist pretty insane. I am currently allowing myself a lot of rest between sets as this is clearly a max strength exercise and there is no way to complete it otherwise, especially with the IM, which is a taxing strength exercise aswell.

It is a pretty steep mastery requirement, but hardly about max strength, would you say? At 5x30 it's more geared towards endurance, and I, and you too I assume, can both perform the next few progression to some extent right?

I think the reason mastery is so difficult, is to allow the tendons time to adapt. If we don't fall for the temptation to skip ahead, our tendons will have had ~six-twelve months of peace and quiet to adapt, which is certainly a good thing.

But: I'd of course still like to know how to deal with the plateau.

Ravn said:

It is a pretty steep mastery requirement, but hardly about max strength, would you say? At 5x30 it's more geared towards endurance, and I, and you too I assume, can both perform the next few progression to some extent right?

I think the reason mastery is so difficult, is to allow the tendons time to adapt. If we don't fall for the temptation to skip ahead, our tendons will have had ~six-twelve months of peace and quiet to adapt, which is certainly a good thing.

But: I'd of course still like to know how to deal with the plateau.

I haven't tried the next progressions yet to be honest, I do not think I could do them on floor, my wrists wouldn't cope, maybe on pbars though. With max strength I was referring to the IM's and the main exercise in the inital weeks. Of course the goal is to become proefficient to the point where the exercise focus shifts from max strength to endurance. For me a ~10 second hold is definitely max strength. On some days, I have to fight real hard just to complete the IM...

Oh, right, I get you. The iM's are pretty max strength oriented...

MT Nordic said:

I'm working with much greater rest intervals, more like max strength type intervals.  Once I get to 5 x 30 seconds I'll bring down the rest intervals.  The mobility (iM) really slows progress on this one because it's so exhausting itself.  But it's nice to see strength progress with longer rest intervals, then I think not quite so demoralizing as you work the rest period down.

 

I do this with pretty much everything that I find too difficult to begin with (which at the moment seems like every exercise with an 'E' in the title description). I have also committed the heresy of supersetting a pair or even three less "intense" exercises when I've been at a real low ebb with illness or toddler induced sleep deprivation, which to my mind is the same as taking a longer rest but doing something useful while you recover. 

 

Have you tried just dropping the iM out for a session to see what that does?

I completely understand your issue. Its easy to get stuck at certain spots on any PL progression once you start getting ioff the ground. Are you doing Tuck/Adv Tuck Planche pushups in addition to your Foundation work? Back in the day of BTGB this was one of the reccomendations. I took this to heart and never had a sticking point even as i worked my way up to Straddle Planche. Everyone is different of course. This will definitely build more strength in your shoulder girdle and help your progress.

 

I think the biggest thing to remember is that sPL and any strength goal is a destination. No matter how carefully thought out the training is you still need to adjust some things and do whats best for you to get there. If something isn't working then you need to change it. On your non PL training days you can certainly start working on adv Tuck PL. Maybe a slight overload is what you need. Personally I would break up my training some days and just hold planches several times a day to make it normal. Weight vest. Not to be cliche.. but don't be afraid to think outside the P-Bars at the gym. I wish you the best in your training!

RyanC said:

I completely understand your issue. Its easy to get stuck at certain spots on any PL progression once you start getting ioff the ground. Are you doing Tuck/Adv Tuck Planche pushups in addition to your Foundation work? Back in the day of BTGB this was one of the reccomendations. I took this to heart and never had a sticking point even as i worked my way up to Straddle Planche. Everyone is different of course. This will definitely build more strength in your shoulder girdle and help your progress.

I think the biggest thing to remember is that sPL and any strength goal is a destination. No matter how carefully thought out the training is you still need to adjust some things and do whats best for you to get there. If something isn't working then you need to change it. On your non PL training days you can certainly start working on adv Tuck PL. Maybe a slight overload is what you need. Personally I would break up my training some days and just hold planches several times a day to make it normal. Weight vest. Not to be cliche.. but don't be afraid to think outside the P-Bars at the gym. I wish you the best in your training!

I like your ideas, but have suffered injuries in the past, so I'm quite cautious. Anyway, I suppose adding a bit of weight could be an option. I've been on this SE for so long now, that my elbow seem fully adapted to the strain. I never have tender elbows anymore.

Ankle weights? I have 2x1 kg lying around...

Try it out. Adding weights to the ankles will definitely make it more challenging. I've never tested this. I'll try it out when i head to the gym today. Plateaus suck so keep us updated. For every you there are 20 other people out there that are stuck on tuck PL.