Hollow Body Hold advice

Hi all,

very useful information on this thread. Thank you all for sharing this valueable knowledge...

cheers,

Hi, I have a quick question about the issue John discribed in post #24.

Is there some kind of a prerequisite exercise (beside the ones Wes discribed) before starting with high quality work on the bend hollow hold? I have an common exercise of many physiotherapies in my mind where you lay supine on the floor and perform the transition from ATP to PPT. This exercise is also in the H1 course and is called bend supine PPT (PE11 iM). When I perform this I can flatten my stomach and pull my ribcage in, but no matter how hard I try, I can`t flatten my stomach in the bend hollow position.

Does this makes any sense?

Thanks anyways, sunny greetings from germany, Marcus

I start patients on PPT with knees bent and progress to single leg hip and knee flexion 90 deg, both legs at 90 deg and then to BHBH. Some I get to do BHBH with feet on the floor. I have 70 year olds do these progressions and eventually do BHBH.

Wes tan,

Thanks for the response. Not exactly the best of things to read ha.

I'm not an expert but have since done some reading and I think you may be right. Not excessive but it does seem like there is either the beginning of an issue or hopefully an issue getting resolved. It has been like that for as long as I can remember and I had always thought it was odd but never enough to do anything.

Thank you again for mentioning this and i'll be looking into rectifying the issue.

Hi Marcus,

It sounds like you may well have diastasis of the recti as John does. If you can maintain a flat stomach whilst performing PPT when the legs and head are resting on the ground, this is most likely because the effort required to do this is not enough to create high pressure that will expose the 'hole' and cause bulging. As soon as you lift the head and knees the pressure is high enough.

Are you able to keep your lumbar spine in contact with the ground during bent knee HBH?

Another tell tale sign of diastasis recti is that people who have this invariably feel a lot of effort or strain in the neck when doing any type of HBH work, as they lift with the neck muscles rather than the abs.

I use the PPT supine as does Mark to train the awareness of body shape first, then I will add resistance by inverting onto all fours (hands and knees or feet). This will engage the abs to remain lifted with PPT but not stress the weak spot. Lifting alternate feet off the floor a few inches is enough to create a strong pull across the midline and this is what is needed to stimulated new coonective tissue growth across the 'hole'.

I would work the abs as much as possible without stressing the bulge, that may mean avoiding HBH and working lots of front supports instead (forearm plank, plank, single arm plank, front supports as in early sPL progressions.

Wes

Mark Collins said:

I start patients on PPT with knees bent and progress to single leg hip and knee flexion 90 deg, both legs at 90 deg and then to BHBH. Some I get to do BHBH with feet on the floor. I have 70 year olds do these progressions and eventually do BHBH.

Wes Tan said:

Hi Marcus,

 

It sounds like you may well have diastasis of the recti as John does. If you can maintain a flat stomach whilst performing PPT when the legs and head are resting on the ground, this is most likely because the effort required to do this is not enough to create high pressure that will expose the 'hole' and cause bulging. As soon as you lift the head and knees the pressure is high enough.

 

Are you able to keep your lumbar spine in contact with the ground during bent knee HBH?

 

Another tell tale sign of diastasis recti is that people who have this invariably feel a lot of effort or strain in the neck when doing any type of HBH work, as they lift with the neck muscles rather than the abs.

 

I use the PPT supine as does Mark to train the awareness of body shape first, then I will add resistance by inverting onto all fours (hands and knees or feet). This will engage the abs to remain lifted with PPT but not stress the weak spot. Lifting alternate feet off the floor a few inches is enough to create a strong pull across the midline and this is what is needed to stimulated new coonective tissue growth across the 'hole'.

 

I would work the abs as much as possible without stressing the bulge, that may mean avoiding HBH and working lots of front supports instead (forearm plank, plank, single arm plank, front supports as in early sPL progressions.

 

Wes

Mark and Wes,

thank you both for taking the time to answer the questions. The progessions you pointed out definitly make some sense to me. Indeed, I have no problem keeping my lumbar spine in contact with the ground during bent knee HBH. Also, there is no strain or discomfort in my neck. It is just a very very very big effort to keep the position. Just like Daniel pointed out in the initial post, it all gets easier when you flatten your stomach... But ist's not possible at the moment for me to flatten that nasty stomach at all.

So, I will work on body awareness and a lot of hip flexions and Plank variations in the next couple of month I guess... I`m looking forward to it.

Thanks again, I hope some more people can make the most out of this information.

Marcus

Daniel-

THanks for sharing your experiences and difficulties.

Some alternate cues I have received that I believe echo your expression --- 'fill in' the back on the floor. Also, always 'ribs in!'

I had a teacher who would 'playfully' whack your belly and ribs while in the hollow shape to insure compliance.

thanks again-

jason

I have this issue as well, I suggest posting a video. I'm gonna try and wrangle a quick one together this weekend as well.

I honestly think I'll just restart since I know this is the default answer to my questions. I may have to do some regressions in order to get there but I think I'll need it anyway. It's also more aesthetically pleasing. It's just so damn annoying. 

Chris Moody said:

 

Although, didn't have a manna without doing this?

 

...didn't Daniel have a manna without doing this...

Chris Moody said:

I honestly think I'll just restart since I know this is the default answer to my questions. I may have to do some regressions in order to get there but I think I'll need it anyway. It's also more aesthetically pleasing. It's just so damn annoying.

...didn't Daniel have a manna without doing this...

Yep. But this killed me on front lever stamina too. As well as some skills. Working this has helped tremendously and I have seen my obliques explode.

Daniel Burnham said:

So I noticed flattening to be more effective than sucking. The distinction seems to be using the diaphragm. Both bring stomach flat but with sucking I can't breath and that makes it more difficult. When I flatten I make sure I can still take breaths. It's a weird feeling that I can't adequately describe on the forum. Maybe I can take a video.

Daniel, thank you for the pointers in this thread.  It has helped me w/ tuckups and other things, even posture.

Daniel Burnham said:

I have had tons of trouble with hollow body holds and was basically brute forcing them as they never got easier. 

 

I realized that I have not been using my deep abdominal muscles to aid in contraction of the hollow.  my stomach would come up in the middle leaving a little "mound" rather than a flat core.  Today I worked on controlling this through breathing and actively flattening and was able to complete 60 seconds much much easier.  It also turns out that I was slightly favoring one side which also limited activation.

 

Just thought you guys might benefit from this discovery if you are like me and don't have the correct activation.

Well, before reading this I was at FL/PE5. Thanks for sending me back to PE1  

I found the "blown up" stomach to be easier to use, since the pressure makes it feel strong and stable and I actually got more ROM. But it may have been a lie. I recently began to wonder why the side abs were not following along in terms of visible muscle growth. After trying the flat abs version I found it much harder to hold on, even on the earlier PE's. Also I suspect that the "mound" may have hindered me in the HLL series since in my passive flexibility I can come to stomach and chest flat on legs and head through - but when strength gets involved, the "mound" pushes the legs away so I need to use more of the lats. It's like the active flexibility has just reached a dead end.

I find it interesting though that you say you got stuck at FL/PE5 because of this but managed to move (through the HLL series) towards the Manna. Can you share some experience/thoughts on this?

Jason Stein said:

Daniel-

THanks for sharing your experiences and difficulties.

 

Some alternate cues I have received that I believe echo your expression --- 'fill in' the back on the floor. Also, always 'ribs in!'

 

I had a teacher who would 'playfully' whack your belly and ribs while in the hollow shape to insure compliance.

 

thanks again-

jason

What means ribs in? In which way we have to breathe then?

William said:

What means ribs in? In which way we have to breathe then?

Breathe with your diaphragm.

'Ribs in' means don't let them flare forwards/outwards at the front of your body. Pull them inward/backwards toward your spine and the floor. You will still be able to breath, your diaphragm will create movement in the back and sides of the ribcage as you wont be allowing the front of the ribs to move :-)