Hollow Body Hold advice

I have had tons of trouble with hollow body holds and was basically brute forcing them as they never got easier. 

I realized that I have not been using my deep abdominal muscles to aid in contraction of the hollow.  my stomach would come up in the middle leaving a little "mound" rather than a flat core.  Today I worked on controlling this through breathing and actively flattening and was able to complete 60 seconds much much easier.  It also turns out that I was slightly favoring one side which also limited activation.

Just thought you guys might benefit from this discovery if you are like me and don't have the correct activation.

So when you are actively flattening, you suck your stomach toward your spine? Do you do it hard (like a vacuum excercise) or just a little to activate?

I will definitely try this!

Sounds interesting. I'm on PE:5 now so would appreciate any further light you can shed on these. I was surprised at how much harder they are than the straddle variation.

Shaolintobbe said:

So when you are actively flattening, you suck your stomach toward your spine? Do you do it hard (like a vacuum excercise) or just a little to activate?

 

I will definitely try this!

Yes  and you can do this limiting the amount of abs effort.

So I noticed flattening to be more effective than sucking. The distinction seems to be using the diaphragm. Both bring stomach flat but with sucking I can't breath and that makes it more difficult. When I flatten I make sure I can still take breaths. It's a weird feeling that I can't adequately describe on the forum. Maybe I can take a video.

Interesting, so both Daniel and Alex confirm this. I used to do it like this, it's a common yoga technique, and just figured I was doing it wrong and the 'bulging belly' way was correct for GST. Mostly because I had an otherwise weak core.

Tried it today, and was easier to hold for time.

However I do think that doing the other way helped me build abdominal strength, so not sure I'd go so far as to say it's wrong. But what Daniel describes does seem to be more efficient.

Always nice when things come around full circle.

Thanks for sharing Daniel. A video showing what your hold looks like with and without the flattening would be great

Cole Dano said:

Interesting, so both Daniel and Alex confirm this. I used to do it like this, it's a common yoga technique, and just figured I was doing it wrong and the 'bulging belly' way was correct for GST. Mostly because I had an otherwise weak core.

 

Tried it today, and was easier to hold for time.

 

However I do think that doing the other way helped me build abdominal strength, so not sure I'd go so far as to say it's wrong. But what Daniel describes does seem to be more efficient.

 

Always nice when things come around full circle.

I had basically brute forced it before but was definitely lacking thee deep abdominal muscles.  In fact I ended up overtraining the abs because I was doing this so often as well as doing manna work. 

I actually discovered this after prexhausting the abs with a ton of v-ups.  I couldn't hold hollow body until I flattened and then was able to hold 30 seconds after about 40 v-ups

-MR said:

Thanks for sharing Daniel. A video showing what your hold looks like with and without the flattening would be great

I filmed a video from my point of view but its pretty bad.  Ill upload it anyway later and maybe take another tonight if someone is willing to film me.

Makes sense Daniel, you and Alex are pretty strong, so I can see that happening and needing to learn to be more efficient.

For myself, I learned to use the deep muscles to the exclusion of the the surface ones, so the brute force method was just the ticket. However, perhaps now it's time for us both to find the middle ground. You from the outside in, me from inside out.

Does anyone have any tips or exercises for activating these muscles i know what your talking about but I just can't feel it, definitely a major weakness for me, been on flpe1 for about a year because although i can keep my lower back on the floor for mastery it just doesnt feel right whenever id do core execises end up withthe stomach sticking out . Purely guessing, something to do with the psoas?

Conversely could it be tightness in opposing muscle groups?

Really appreciate your opinions and help.

Video

You are working a muscle called the transverse abdominus. It wraps around the trunk from the ribs, pubic bone and then in the low back at the thoracolumbar dorsal fascia. It is like our built in back brace. Think of the trunk like a cylinder with the diaphragm at the top and pelvic floor at the bottom. The big rectus abdominus, obliques and low back muscles are the centre of the cylinder. If the stomach bulges you are losing pressure(stability) through the cylinder. By drawing the stomach in you create a very stable low back and pelvis. This way you have no energy leaks and your relative effort feels less.

Think i'm beginning to understand what's going on. had a look at this website seemed along thw same lines, http://www.simplebackpain.com/transverse-abdominis.html#axzz3AxCDgNua.

So while doing a hollow hold instead of using tensing you rectus abdominus to push your low back into the floor creating a jutting out belly, should feel more like creating a HOLLOW (aha!) dish shape by pulling your pelvis up into PPT using you TrA, obliques and pelvic floor.

Tried this on my last workout and seems to have really hit the muscles just above the hips, navel level,  on the sides of rectus abdominus(internal obliques?). Would that indicate them being the weakest link in the cylinder described above by Mark or am I still shooting way of base.

Sorry communication is not my strongest facet, but just looking for reassurance that I'm on the right track.

Thanks

Mark Collins said:

You are working a muscle called the transverse abdominus. It wraps around the trunk from the ribs, pubic bone and then in the low back at the thoracolumbar dorsal fascia. It is like our built in back brace. Think of the trunk like a cylinder with the diaphragm at the top and pelvic floor at the bottom. The big rectus abdominus, obliques and low back muscles are the centre of the cylinder. If the stomach bulges you are losing pressure(stability) through the cylinder. By drawing the stomach in you create a very stable low back and pelvis. This way you have no energy leaks and your relative effort feels less.

thank you mark to spend some nice words with us!

I had a similar issue years ago. A physical therapist told me I was using all rectus abdominus. He had me push my fingers into my stomach off to the side of the rectus and practice creating tension there.

The Hansenator said:

I had a similar issue years ago. A physical therapist told me I was using all rectus abdominus. He had me push my fingers into my stomach off to the side of the rectus and practice creating tension there.

Could you elaborate on the method?

Don't stress too much. Keep it simple and don't let the abdomen pop or bulge. When you contract the transverse abdominus you can barely feel it. As soon as you draw your Neely button in you are activating the transverse abdominus. If you pull hard enough to feel it you are using the internal obliques. You need all the abdominal muscles to work so just focus on not bulging and you will be doing fine.

VegVeg said:

Could you elaborate on the method?

There wasn't too much more to it. I could feel that the ab muscles on the sides weren't tensing. Touching the muscle can tell you what it's doing and you can figure out how to tense it.

I think I am the only one who finds this harder. Although my stomachs doesn't seem to bulge that much in general.

Hi guys,

Thought I'd add this video here as its relevant to what the discussion is on. I did this a while back on the topic of breathing in front lever progressions. To echo Mark, TA activation is important in stabilising the low back and pressurising the abdominal 'cylinder' and creates a better shape for the diaphragm to function with.

Hope it helps.

Forgot the video hahah

Thanks for the replies. I think I will drop down a micro cycle and concentrate on getting the subtle movements second nature as when I try to force the hold for time I revert to pushing the abs out. On a side note being conscious of the points made above has made my body line in hbp and spl progressions better and more stable.

I work as a climbing arborist and suffer occasional back pain so I am also hopeful the better understanding of how to protect my back will prevent this.

Thanks for your time guys.

Hey guys,

Am I the only one who cannot get my stomach flat at all?

After reading this I have been trying to work on getting my stomach as flat as possible only to find that it is simply impossible. While lying flat on the ground if I raise anything, be it my legs or shoulders, my stomach pops up with a pronounced bulge. No amount of effort can shift it. Is there an exercise I can do to teach myself this muscle activation?

Cheers

Hi Jon,

Sorry for the delay in replying to your post. I think you may have what is called diastasis recti - a seperation of the linea alba (the connective tissue union between the right and left halves of the abdominal musculature). Some of us are born with this, others develop this through simply not using the abdominals over time. I see this in a very high percentage of males suffering with low back issues, even though most of what you read online relates to pregnancy and children.

To test this, when you try to perform the hollow body (or simply when lifting your head as you say) try to insert a few of your fingers into the bulge. If this is the case you should find that you can not insert your fingers above or below the bulge.

As the linea alba is connective tissue ir has the potential to close, I have two children and my partner has successfully managed diastasis recti to closure after both pregnancies.

It's better to work the core on hands and knees such as in plank and front support variations. This tends to cause a strong engagement of the abdominal musculature without stressing the weak spot too much I.e avoiding bulging.

What is really needs is contraction of the obliques and transversus abdominis muscles as these will create a line of force that crosses the midline, so one arm planks, alternating hands, walking in extended long hollow holds, sideways locomotion etc.

But first check if it is indeed diastasis recti as a describe above and let us know.

Wesley