When would i see physical results with F1 ?

i think, for the benefit of OP and anyone seeing this in the future is to just try it for yourself. with little food and big financial burdens, i've managed to at least move 3 times a week with 2 H1 sessions and see progress. it definitely is not optimal for me as a whole but for my current situation, it is the best i can do and hence optimal.

OP,

in a perfect world, you'd know how much food you'd have to eat and simply get moving. the benefit of doing the curriculum is that if you have a lot of weaknesses (like me) every step of the way is a step closer to the top. keep notes and keep notes of more than just sets and reps, write about your perceived effort, your mood, how it feels in any way different. then compare to a week prior for a month. a month is way too little to come to a real conclusion, but it will give you an idea of what you didnt have before.

also, be sure to search the forum for a post by Wheezer (Tris) he has a few posts on his strategy of body composition and also Joshua Naterman goes into crazy detail on nutrition in the nutrition forums.

hope this serves you ~

thecolin said:

The science appears to be pretty clear on that as well. People who tend to be larger with larger appetites will also tend to be larger when they resistance train. So obviously what's the first thing someone that has always been big and eaten a lot will tell you if you want to grow, eat more!   Hormones are where it's at with muscle growth, without the right hormones all those extra calories won't be much use.

 

I say, train your ass off, eat good food and see what happens.

Yes but you need good cholesterol levels for optimal hormonal production (and the thyroid must be functioning properly too of course) So if you want to maximize potential growth you need to make sure there is lots of quality fats with which your body can produce the hormones it needs.  It's not just eating lots, it's also eating right.  I was never able to weigh more than 155 until my late twenties no matter how much I ate.  Even if I gained I would lose it fast if I stopped pigging out.  In the past year eating better (but less over all)  I maintain 175 and am gaining with better diet and adequate calories.  A good addition to help get your cholesterol ratios in order is to eat raw cold pressed coconut oil.  There's lot so other benefits as well.  It does raise your overall cholesterol level but that isn't an issue if you're active and things are in order.  

I won't go on a tangent but the idea of limiting "bad cholesterol" through dietary restriction is so outdated and wrong with what we know at this point.

People don't need to just go pig out, but they should try tracking their caloric intake and ratios if they are having trouble gaining and maintaining weight.  It's very likely they will be surprised at how much they are actually getting in a lot of areas IME.  

The overall point is you can definitely get shredded doing GST.  It's all I did really in the past year along with some Floreo and a little powerlifting (once every week or two, nothing serious) and like I mentioned I've put on about 20Lbs of muscle, no fat.   Skinnier than even really in terms of body fat.

BUT be ready to be patient.  I am FINALLY about to master FL/PE1 but ti took me months and months.  It made me discover a twist in posture and some improper movement patterns I had developed.  I have been meticulous about fixing it and it has helped in all areas of my athleticism (including my golf game!).  This led me down a long path of fixing tight hips, calf muscles etc.. etc... until now almsot a year later I can get both sides of my back flat on the ground with no twist.  This aesthetically fixed my stomach too.  I always had an '8 pack' on one side and a 'six pack' on the other but with much stronger obliques.  Now it's a solid 8 and much more even.  

With regular strength training I would have likely just further engrained this imbalance making it harder and harder to fix (it was already hard to fix too!).

At any rate I'm grateful for this program and I say you should start it ASAP.  

Sorry for the short novel.

The way I see it, not only will I eventually look damn good with Foundation/Handstand, but I'll have the strength, mobility, balance, agility, and physical MASTERY to back it all up, which is important to me as well. Then from that foundation, I can go off and do all the other physical things I want. Sure it will probably take longer to get there with Foundation, but the thing to remember is that it's going to take lots of time no matter what you do. So why not start with the long term in mind right now, and be that much further down the "long term" road?

Sure if you go to the gym and lift weights and eat a lot and whatever, you'll probably see some results after 3-6 months, but to get where you really want to go you're probably still going to have to stick with it for at least a year or so, so why not spend that year doing things the right way to being with? Not sure where you're at now, or what your goals are in terms of looks, but personally I think the super huge bodybuilder look is way too much. For me, in terms of looks, I'd rather be closer to say Brad Pitt in Fight Club or something similar than pretty much anyone in any weightlifting/bodybuilding magazine. And I think even that would take at least a year or more with lifting (unless you are in fact a famous actor who can afford a small team of exclusive personal trainers, private nutritionists, makeup artists, and several hours of free time every day to work out).

Basically, to TL;DR it: As someone who was 27 a mere 3 years ago, I can tell you the biggest lesson I've had to personally learn so far (with EVERYTHING really, and I'm really kicking myself for it since I feel like my 20's could've been so much better if I had gotten this when I was 18 (or even 27)) is that that thing that looks like it's the slow path that will take you forever to walk? That's just an illusion. That "slow path" is really the TRUE fast path. Everyone thinks the quick path looks so attractive and magical, and the slow path looks so long and hard and tedious, but the reality is that this is totally backwards. The "slow path" is really the ONLY path, therefore it's the fastest by default. If you try going down what looks like the fast path now, it's NOT going to work and you're just going to end up having to start back at square one (or close to it) once you find out the quick path isn't going to give you what you're looking for. Then you'll find out that if you had started with the "slow path" to begin with, you would've been done ages ago, only oh look, you're just now getting started...

Duketronix said:

Yes but you need good cholesterol levels for optimal hormonal production

 

 It's not just eating lots, it's also eating right.

 

I won't go on a tangent but the idea of limiting "bad cholesterol" through dietary restriction is so outdated and wrong with what we know at this point.

 

The point I was making was that people often look to others with a certain trait that they want to replicate, but the advice they give probably won't be relevant to everyone. There's an entire range of abilities and relevant qualities between the elite and the physically disabled, and everyone will respond a little (or a lot) differently to the same stimulus. When someone says they gained 'X' amount of muscle when they did 'Y' is a anecdotal statement relevant to them and them alone. I think generally people spend far too much time looking for special tips and tricks to improve, when in fact elite performance is based on genetics and body type with a good dose of herculean effort, naturally. Though no amount of effort will produce exceptional qualities without the basic body requirements of a given sport.

I think men are as badly affected by magazine covers as women. It's better just to focus on eating healthy and training hard, than to try tweaking every detail of your life to try and look like a fitness model. In a non-competitive environment I prefer to just focus on being better today than I was yesterday. In a competitive environment you're mostly just selecting for specific traits and then seeing who can follow through with the training. The only consistent thread between the two is effort and consistency. Though that's a tricky subject as well. Almost every elite athlete will have had to put in incredible effort to get to where they are, but it doesn't follow that anyone who puts in an identical effort will get to anywhere near the same level.

Regarding cholesterol, most dietary cholesterol we eat is esterified, so it's very poorly absorbed. Eating a higher fat diet can slightly alter the ratios a bit, but not much else (though there are always exceptions). Cholesterol is another thing that is largely controlled by genetics. Diet is important because it has a large effect on the qualities of our cholesterol, but I don't think you can significantly alter it in terms of total amount through diet.

Ya got what you were saying.

My point is that if a person hasn't tried something they shouldn't assume that it won't work for them too.  Better to see for yourself.  I'm not talking crazy tweaking, just altering ratios of a healthy diet.  Just sharing what worked for me as I came form a similar situation to the OP.

It isn't about trying to look like a fitness model it is about learning about yourself and your body and growing through that relationship.  Finding out what it responds well to and then supplying it with the fuel it runs on best.  I've never trained for looks but my genetics make me have a certain aesthetic as a result of the fuel I give it (it never had that look before I knew what my body liked)

I agree that people shouldn't put undue pressure on themselves if it's to the point of diminishing returns and being unrealistic/damaging emotionally or physically.  Especially when it comes to physical appearance.

But that it isn't what I'm saying at all.  

You're kind of assuming a lot and putting words in my mouth.

There's always body image issues some, and people who will delude themselves into problematic situations but that's all part of missing the entirety of the way I see things.  To accept and learn about your body, nourish it and let it grow

Cholesterol is controlled largely through genetics but the expression of genetics is influenced by dietary factors and gut flora.  It's all related so you can't discount one aspect as irrelevant.  It all matters in the big picture.   Cholesterol is the precursor for many hormones in the body though and having an abundance of the right raw materials will directly influence the bodies success of not only maintain proper cholesterol ratios but also of properly converting that cholesterol and using it effectively.  

Why not do small things to help your body succeed?  Like finding a diet that works well for you.  I don't think that is an unrealistic goal or has anything to do with body issues.  My point wasn't to show off how fit I am (text would hardly be a good medium anyway) but to point out the difference that finding what works for you can make.

Anyway I'll leave it there, this is getting off topic.

Duketronix said:

With regular strength training I would have likely just further engrained this imbalance making it harder and harder to fix (it was already hard to fix too!).

 

...because of your lack of knowledge?

Bryce H said:

That's just an illusion. That "slow path" is really the TRUE fast path. Everyone thinks the quick path looks so attractive and magical, and the slow path looks so long and hard and tedious, but the reality is that this is totally backwards. The "slow path" is really the ONLY path, therefore it's the fastest by default. If you try going down what looks like the fast path now, it's NOT going to work and you're just going to end up having to start back at square one (or close to it) once you find out the quick path isn't going to give you what you're looking for. Then you'll find out that if you had started with the "slow path" to begin with, you would've been done ages ago, only oh look, you're just now getting started...

Like like like! Exactly! As they say, slow is smooth, smooth is fast...I count myself lucky to have found information sources like this forum that give me the opportunity to learn things before I make mistakes early on in my life. With time and patience, I believe we can accomplish nearly anything .

Duketronix said:

My point is that if a person hasn't tried something they shouldn't assume that it won't work for them too.

 

 

You're kind of assuming a lot and putting words in my mouth.

 

Cholesterol is controlled largely through genetics but the expression of genetics is influenced by dietary factors and gut flora.

Absolutely, you should experiment and see what works, I was more saying that there's no simple solution. Some people will simply respond better to certain stimuli than others, or not at all. Some people will probably take it as an excuse not to try, which is pretty foolish if you ask me. But I still prefer to deal in reality, not pie in the sky fantasies.

I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth, I was just continuing a previous thought, not completely responding to anything you said. I tend to ramble with one idea leading into another. 

It appears you can definitely change gene expression through your environment and choices, but you can't activate genes you don't have. Nor is it clear how these mechanisms work yet.

I have long limbs myself so I know how hard it is.

When doing BW exercises, I find I need to eat MORE. Way more then when I was just weightlifting.

Curious, do any of you consume supplements? I only do a pre workout that has BCAA's, small dose of creatine, and small dose of caffeine from green tea so it's loaded with antioxidants as well. I also do a grass fed non denatured whey protein.

ajoOba said:

...because of your lack of knowledge?

Troll much?

Maybe you're right, but I've never seen any good conventional strength training that would have fixed the problems I was having.  Maybe if you're including all the trigger point and physio, but that's hardly conventional 'weight lifting'.  

Regular lifting would have only kept things the same even with proper technique.  The problem wasn't huge but led to imbalances.  Fixing it involved a lot of hard work, a  lot of popping and actually reshaped my ribcage to some degree.  If you asked most people before they'd have said I was symmetrical and had great technique.  In fact there's a lot of physios and pro trainers at my gym and I quite regularly get chatted up about just that.   All I can say is that after putting in the work I can tell the difference in my lifts and movements, not to mention my shoulder ROM has leveled out (one always lagged from the imbalance).

But hey, if I'm missing something here and there's some easy way I could have done all this let me know, you're the genius right?  LOL

Either way F1 made me discover the problem and that was my main point.  Couldn't get the back REALLY flat on both sides in FL1.  I make sure to do things properly and take my time.  IMO most of the FL1 form checks I see on this forum are not what I would accept for myself as acceptable.   Ones that people confirm as passes too.  I'm just really into understanding and doing it right, milking any benefit I can as I go along.  I found as I worked the movement that I was able to further incorporate the entire abdominals better and my tucked positions would improve which would set my time back as I only accepted the full flexion of my timed portion for reps.  sagging = fail.  As a result I'm extremely solid on that movement, have vastly improved my control/connection with my abdominals and my stomach is ripped.  It's all win win from my end really.  I'll be moving on to PE2 in a week.  I've played with it in the past though and expect to pass it quite quickly after PE1.  

So seriously enlighten me.  I'd appreciate the info.

Thank you all for the replies. There have been some very helpful posts in this thread. I feel a lot more confident moving forward with the Foundation series. 

"More sweat. More sacrifice. Less bullshit." - Coach Sommer

Duff said:

Like like like! Exactly! As they say, slow is smooth, smooth is fast...I count myself lucky to have found information sources like this forum that give me the opportunity to learn things before I make mistakes early on in my life. With time and patience, I believe we can accomplish nearly anything .

The great thing is I can actually SEE that now whereas before it was more like a nice saying that sounded nice.

The silly thing about not going for the quick fix and ideas like making sure you get the basics handled first and "start where you're at" is that I had heard this stuff from experts in other areas where I was learning about success and personal development. And I actually thought I wasn't doing any of that stuff myself! After lots of procrastination, frustration, and never getting anywhere, I had to be honest with myself and I realized that I was basically trying to run before I could walk in a few major areas of my life.

A huge part of it is that I really didn't like the idea of having to spend years to get certain basic things handled before getting to the good stuff. It felt like this huge mountain to climb. But like I said, if I had been honest with myself and done things right to begin with, I would've been "done" years ago. Instead, in a lot of ways I'm only just now getting started.

Oh well. Lesson learned!