(Almost) passing out from sPL iMs

Hello all-

I'm currently working at sPL/SE2 and the sticking point for me is the iM. Basically, the issue is that almost as soon as I enter the position, something happens which seems to severely restrict the blood flow to my head, and I can only do about 2 reps in the position before collapsing (not due to muscle fatigue, but because I'm literally on the verge of passing out). I've been chocked out before with a blood choke in Judo (not a breath choke) and this feels exactly the same. So yes, I enter the position, immeadiealy I'm lightheaded, and within 2-3 seconds I'm right on the edge of literally passing out.

 

I want to mention, that this is NOT anything like feeling lightheaded or whatever do to the strain of the exercise, nor the issue that one can have when starting handstands. As far as I can tell, something is very quickly and strongly restricting blood flow to my head. It is not anything at all that I could simply "power through", all that would happen is that I would go unconscious.

 

Now, this is where the plot thinkens: I've had this issue starting with sPL/PE iM 2 Running Man. Every single iM in the sPL series where I had to hold my hips up would cause this sensation (but not this bad). It really was an issue to complete exercises as I was struggling against almost passing out vs. just exerting myself on the exercises. However, I was able to complete mastery eventually.

 

When I got to sPL/SE1 iM I didn't have this problem at all. So it seemed that the issue was due to my weight being held on my chest/stomach for those earlier iMs (as you do those lying your upper body down). Since sPL/SE1 iM has you "floating", and the sensation went away, I thought it was due to that, and that now my body weight was not going to be pressing down on my belly/chest that I'd no longer have the problem.

 

However, once I started sPL/SE2 iM, the sensation has come back, but now 10 fold, to the point, as I said that I can only do about 2 reps before almost passing out. The only difference I can think of between this one and sPL/SE1 is that my hips are now forced to be much more open and flat (and the calves really have to be held up high and perpedicular to the ground). But still... I cannot understand the mechanism behind this, nor figure out how to solve it. It's been several weeks of this happening to me (so it's not just something that happened once) and it's been long enough that I thought that I might start to "get used to it" but I haven't. This is really holding me back and frustrating me.

 

So... any thoughts? Ideas? Anyone else have something like this happen?

Holding your breath too strongly will result in high blood pressure in the head. Do you breathе even a little during iMs?

mitko said:

Holding your breath too strongly will result in high blood pressure in the head. Do you breathе even a little during iMs?

Hi Mitko. Yes, I do breathe (that was one of the first things I checked). That's why it seems to be related to blood flow.

Here's a video of the last set from today's workout:

 

Put your head down maybe? The model does and is looking directly down at the floor.

LateStarter@46 said:

Put your head down maybe? The model does and is looking directly down at the floor.

A-ha! Hadn't even thought of that. I'll give it a shot and report back.

HamdiC, I would like to see a straighter line, shoulders-hips-knees in line, because from 0:04 you are quite arched and piked at the same time. Your legs could be slightly more internally rotated, pointing up instead of in, in the "resting position". Currently you are not enforcing a proper straddle planche body shape as far as the lower body is concerned. Maybe it's because of the aforementioned problem?

Hey, I actually had the same problems with the earlier sPL iM but I did significantly higher reps than prescribed before moving on so that I was very comfortable with the positions. I too really struggled with SE im2 a ton in the beginning, and I found three things that helped me tremendously. (I am currently at 3 sets of 10r of the iM and the last 2 sets of 6-8r depending)

 

1. Place a huge importance on not just breathing, but breathing rhythmically and at consistent intervals. (I tend to breathe in as I enter the position and breathe out quickly once as I settle in to it)

 

2. Enter from a tuck planche position rather than the way you are doing it.

 

3. Hands partially sideways seems to help alleviate some of the pressure for me. 

 

4. The BIGGEST point that I found most helpful was to work up to 20s of sPL/SE1 -iM, instead of 10s as that was just not enough for me. And once I worked up to 20s I would go up to 15s sets and the last 5s try doing a couple reps until I worked up to 4 reps consistently.

 

After I reached that, then I transitioned fully to sPL SE2 iM, and I was fine, because I was comfortable holding the static position for a longer period of time and able to do a few reps already. The big point for me is that it was a very gradual transition, rather than trying to just bulldoze my way in to the next position. Going straight away from static to a more dynamic movement with reps is really difficult, especially if you are trying to defy gravity. 

 

Hope that helps.

 

Chris.

 

Edit: Since the color code scheme was introduced I forget if sPL/SE2 is in F2 or the beginning of F3, apologies if it is F3 as this is the F2 forum.

thank you for sharing, chris.

I agree with the head straighter thought from late starter.  A hard hyperextension of the neck will often compress the vertebrobasilar arteries and lead to lightheadedness, esp if yours are small.  Very common in elderly, but occurs in younger patients if they are smaller than normal.  A picture is worth a thousand words...

MT Nordic said:

I agree with the head straighter thought from late starter.  A hard hyperextension of the neck will often compress the vertebrobasilar arteries and lead to lightheadedness, esp if yours are small.  Very common in elderly, but occurs in younger patients if they are smaller than normal.  A picture is worth a thousand words...

Good thought MT Nordic. I was initially thinking more along the lines of valsalva-induced syncope given his description, but it happens so quickly on that video that it seems unlikely.

 

Hamdi, does the problem disappear when you manage to keep your neck straight during the hold? If not, do you get the same feeling when performing a valsalva manoeuvre for a few seconds (trying to exhale forcefully while keeping your breath in, like when kids try to make their faces red)?

i almost pass out from doing SL/PE2>iM.  To the point where last week when I was doing it, my head was pounding the whole night.  The entire room felt like it was spinning for maybe 5-10 secs or so, everytime I do a set

You can see that the athlete in the video gets pretty red in the face doing this one too after only a few reps. It would be interesting to hear from Coach on this one.

MT Nordic said:

I agree with the head straighter thought from late starter.  A hard hyperextension of the neck will often compress the vertebrobasilar arteries and lead to lightheadedness, esp if yours are small.  Very common in elderly, but occurs in younger patients if they are smaller than normal.  A picture is worth a thousand words...

I think i have the same problem, not with sPL, i'm not there yet, but i often get problems with blood flow if my neck is strongly tensed.

Just turning the head to the side for a longer period makes me feel really uncomfortable in the head.

But i always thought it is because my neck is quite thick and muscular, hard to find shirts which fit to my remaining body and the big muscles are stopping the blood flow while moving in some positions.(also doing arm swings/dislocates sometimes too)

 

though i hope for more informations here - very interesing

Niklas03 said:

HamdiC, I would like to see a straighter line, shoulders-hips-knees in line, because from 0:04 you are quite arched and piked at the same time. Your legs could be slightly more internally rotated, pointing up instead of in, in the "resting position". Currently you are not enforcing a proper straddle planche body shape as far as the lower body is concerned. Maybe it's because of the aforementioned problem?

Thanks Niklas. These are exactly the cues that I'm attempting to work on, but this issue prevents me from doing any work sets at all.

-MR said:

Good thought MT Nordic. I was initially thinking more along the lines of valsalva-induced syncope given his description, but it happens so quickly on that video that it seems unlikely.

Hamdi, does the problem disappear when you manage to keep your neck straight during the hold? If not, do you get the same feeling when performing a valsalva manoeuvre for a few seconds (trying to exhale forcefully while keeping your breath in, like when kids try to make their faces red)?

No, the problem is the same. I just finished today's workout and despite keeping a stright neck, concentrating on breathing, as well as more open hips and internally rotated legs, I still had the same issue for all sets. Again it's not at all like the red-faced strain I can get from doing PPP's or whatnot, this is as if my bloodflow is being cut off to my head very very quickly and I can only stand 2 seconds or so before I've got to collapse out of the position.

Will post a video tomorrow of today's workout.

Very frustrating because I'm litterally stuck and cannot make any forward progress.

Do you do any stretching for the quads. If I'm not mistaking it looks like you are straining a lot to keep your legs up and in this case it would do you good to release some tension and reduce the overall straining you do. Maybe I am wrong about this but still you could use some more range of motion in that area

Consider going back to a more controlled position(earlier  iM) and looking for the source of the problem there, where it's easier to hold. Try and feel where the tension in the head could come from.

I hope someone can give a more useful answer

mitko said:

Do you do any stretching for the quads. If I'm not mistaking it looks like you are straining a lot to keep your legs up and in this case it would do you good to release some tension and reduce the overall straining you do. Maybe I am wrong about this but still you could use some more range of motion in that area

Consider going back to a more controlled position(earlier  iM) and looking for the source of the problem there, where it's easier to hold. Try and feel where the tension in the head could come from.

I hope someone can give a more useful answer

Thanks mitko. I had no problems ever with any of the iM's in the sPL progression (until SE1 that is, but I didn't have this problem with SE1)... yes there was some strain in the medial glutes, but I was always able to do mastery reps and form of all iM's the first time I tried them. Now even trying to do SE1 iM gives me the same problem with the blood being cut off from my head... which is strange because I spent a month or two working on that iM to master it but never had the problem.

 

Here's video of last night's attempts, again on the verge of passing out each set when I drop down:

 

 

Although it does seem now that I could still try to straighten my neck some more...

It really seems you should be building much more volume on at least SE1, especially as you seem to be encountering greater difficulty as the week goes on. You do not want to actually pass out, so perhaps getting very comfortable with SE1 again before continuing SE2 is the way to go, as SE1 iM is now causing you trouble again.

 

Try working up to 20r volume on sPL/Pe6, as that is the counterpart to SE2, except on the table.

 

Have you considered an extra deload week? 

 

One more thing, in what order are you doing your workout? When I was having trouble I placed sPL as the first exercise and it did make a noticeable difference. 

 

Hope that helps,

 

Chris.

can you post a se1 im?

Hi Meras and Chris-

Actually when I try to just to SE1 iM by itself I have the same problem now (when I didn't before). I was having trouble with "golfers" elbow just as I finished mastery of SE1 and took about 3 weeks completely off from all work that used my arms (so no HBP, sPL, RC, HS, etc... for a little over 3 weeks) then when I started back working out I've got this problem. So, I've been trying to just do sets of SE1 now, but again this blood flow problem stops each set at about 2 seconds. I guess I could in the meantime also try getting higher volume in PE6 iM, that's a good idea to atleast work on something (although I don't know if it will have a connection to the main issue I'm having now).

 

sPL is currently my second element in my workout as FL is not too crazy taxing to me. I'll try starting out with it next time and check back.

Do you have the same problem in the bottom of a pushup? If not get to the bottom of a pushup and start leaning forward until before you get the symptoms. Start working from there for a bigger lean without provoking symptoms(witch may take time).

Does having your head in the neutral position (i.e. looking right down at the floor) make any difference? The last video still shows significant neck extension.

Yes, some people are prone to tension headaches when their traps contract tightly and then remain partially contracted without fully releasing.

Focus on stretching the traps out. This is accomplished by placing the knees on the ground next to your ears while on your back. Hold for time, switch both knees to one side, straighten the knees and slide the feet farther back on the floor behind you are all helpful variations.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

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