RC/PE1 harder than PE2 and PE3 -- am I the only one?

Okay, I can do about 20 reps of PE2 and 10 reps of PE3... am I the only one that thinks PE1 is much, much harder?

You have a typo there. But yes I think that PE1 is hardest of the 3. It is what it is.

Riku Calderón said:

You have a typo there. But yes I think that PE1 is hardest of the 3. It is what it is.

Corrected, thanks for the heads up.

 

Yeah, I guess it is what it is. I can see myself spending a few cycles on PE1 and then breezing through the next two. Having a lot of trouble keeping my shoulders down on PE1.

It's possible that you are making this PE harder than it needs to be and making it into a semi assisted bulgarian pull up, instead of the assisted face pull that it is.

 

Perhaps you could post a video just to make sure. 

I'm building up volume on PE1 for this and I haven't tried the other PE's. But I'm glad to hear this, although I'm sure volume might also be an issue with them.

Not to be mean but it shouldn't be. The early PE's are leading up to ground rows in a progressive manner.

It's worth checking that you're copying the video correctly, sitting too far forward will make it more like a ground row and too far back you might struggle with compression.

Also do yourself a favour by pulling yourself with your core to the rings not just your arms.

Hope that helps.

I definitely find PE1 the most difficult of the three. But it does resemble the form for proper rope climbing very nicely.

 

dritar said:

It's possible that you are making this PE harder than it needs to be and making it into a semi assisted bulgarian pull up, instead of the assisted face pull that it is.

 

Have you seen the course video lately? It used to be an assisted face pull, but it was updated into something I think much more Bulgarian looking.

I've seen latest video.

 

I think the most important part is to mimic exactly how the athlete gets into the start position, that is sitting down under the rings with the hands reaching the rings with arms somewhat bent and then open the hip to get into the start.

 

You can make the movement much harder if you set the rings too high or too low or the feet too forward or too back in my experience.

I agree with the OP.  This is very tough for me.  After completing week 11, I am only able to do reps of 10-8-5-6-6.  Ten is the most I have been able to do thus far. Perhaps I need to check my form (sitting too far forward or back) and ring height.  I do my best to mimic the form of the athlete in the video and I have questioned my ring height - they look too high.  I position them at my arm's length while sitting on the floor like in the video.  I have long arms (I am 6'2") and I use the top of a Smith Machine to attach my rings.

 

Also, perhaps I am doing more of a row by pulling more with my arms than my core.  I may have to submit a form check video.

I'm on PE3 right now and I find PE3 the hardest of the three. PE2 after that and PE1 is easiest for me. As Murray said, the early PE's shouldn't be harder than a ground row. Proper positioning does make a big impact, as others have noted. Really trying to engage the lats and pulling using the muscles of the back rather than just the arms has been helpful as well.

 

- Cody

PE1 requires good external rotation strength, horizontal shoulder abduction strength/scapular retraction strength, and thoracic spinal extension strength, which many adults have issues with due to too much sitting (in front of a computer/desk, in a car, while watching tv,etc...), while PE2 and PE3 are more about scapular retraction, elbow flexion, and shoulder extension, which not as many of us have as many issues with.

So, it's not all that surprising that many of us find this the hardest of the three when we first start F1.

PE1 is the hardest for me.

 

After spending a few months on PE1 with no progress I decided to move on. Then I breezed though PE2 and am making good progress on PE3. I also throw in the occasional set of PE6 and I don't expect to have too much trouble with it when I get that far.

Keegan said:

PE1 requires good external rotation strength, horizontal shoulder abduction strength/scapular retraction strength, and thoracic spinal extension strength, which many adults have issues with due to too much sitting (in front of a computer/desk, in a car, while watching tv,etc...), while PE2 and PE3 are more about scapular retraction, elbow flexion, and shoulder extension, which not as many of us have as many issues with.

So, it's not all that surprising that many of us find this the hardest of the three when we first start F1.

 

 

I think this hits the nail on the head for me. I saw somebody post a form video here where they brought their hands far back and very low at the top of movement, almost like he was doing a behind-the-neck pull-up. This is how I've been pursuing it since it targets my weak areas, just as you describe. I'm not really complaining that PE1 is hardest, since I'll doubtlessly see the most improvements from it, but I was curious if it was just me or if everyone felt the same way.

 

So far I've hit week five and have seen consistant, steady strength increases. 3x3 felt difficult, but 4x6 feels no more difficult so I've definitely grown in strength, which I'm very happy about. I'm even seeing some mass increase even though I'm dieting.

RC PE1 was the hardest PE1 for me, and the last exercise series where I was stuck on PE1. I probably spent 3 months on this one PE. The upside though is that after I finished I achieved mastery on every RC PE up to PE5 on the first try. Now I'm working through PE6.

Jay B. said:

I think this hits the nail on the head for me. I saw somebody post a form video here where they brought their hands far back and very low at the top of movement, almost like he was doing a behind-the-neck pull-up. This is how I've been pursuing it since it targets my weak areas, just as you describe. I'm not really complaining that PE1 is hardest, since I'll doubtlessly see the most improvements from it, but I was curious if it was just me or if everyone felt the same way.

So far I've hit week five and have seen consistant, steady strength increases. 3x3 felt difficult, but 4x6 feels no more difficult so I've definitely grown in strength, which I'm very happy about. I'm even seeing some mass increase even though I'm dieting.

This is exactly how I perform PE1 and although it is really hard I think this is the correct way it should be performed. It starts as a ground row and ends more like a Bulgarian Pull up - Behind the neck pull up with elbows bent at 90 degrees...The benefits are amazing...I have seen amazing definition and mass added on my arms and upper back and lats and forearms even though I do not follow a specific diet in order to gain mass...Also it's a great exercise for shoulder health. I am really close to mastering it. I am quite sure that after mastering this way it will help us fly through the following PE's until PE 6. However I still believe it will put us on weeks 9 - 12 microcycle when we are ready to perform PE6. It builds crazy muscular endurance...

I skipped PE1 at some point, went up to PE4, realized that PE1 was very important for reasons I didn't understand at the time, and now I'm back down at PE1. I can do 4 sets of 12 reps but that last set is a killer!

 

One thing I didn't expect reading people's comments here is that the work in PE1 would carry over to the other row movements. Why would that be? It seems that hinge rows are pretty far removed from the muscles used in the rowing motion...

I plan to repeat the last microcycle. 4x12 was tough but 4x15 is just brutal on the last sets. Hearing about the skill transfer brings a lot of hope. 

 

IcedDante: congrats on starting over F is just made in a way where you can't skip steps.

IcedDante said:

I skipped PE1 at some point, went up to PE4, realized that PE1 was very important for reasons I didn't understand at the time, and now I'm back down at PE1. I can do 4 sets of 12 reps but that last set is a killer!

 

One thing I didn't expect reading people's comments here is that the work in PE1 would carry over to the other row movements. Why would that be? It seems that hinge rows are pretty far removed from the muscles used in the rowing motion... 

 

Same boat here was on PE3 went back to PE1 once the video changed.

 

PE1 works greatly your arms and forearms (brachioradialis). I still believe that there is a lot of carryover from PE1 to the other PE's at least from an arm and forearm endurance standpoint which later will help at achieving mastery on the other PE's faster. Time will show whether I am correct or no...Will be able to tell for sure in a few weeks.

Sorry to piggyback on your thread, but I'd rather not start a new thread just for this; can Hinge Rows be done on a bar set at the correct height, or does it have to be rings?

Rings. If you only have a bar hang a rope/towel/karate type belt over it and use like rings.

But you ARE going to need rings at some point so you might as well get them now.

I made my own pair of ring-like objects.  I got some PVC pipe and placed it inside a long, strong dog leash.  Hang/wrap the one end around your pull-up bar and you have one ring.  I suppose it's more like a TRX handle, but for rows and stuff it's perfect.  Also cheap, especially if you already have a good leash or two lying around.  I think it cost $30-40 bucks for a set.

You can get a good set of rings on amazon for around the same price though

kimura said:

You can get a good set of rings on amazon for around the same price though

Wow.  When I first started looking for gymnastics rings a few years ago the price was much, much higher.  I also made the mistake of looking at fitness sites, not amazon, which is much cheaper.  Well, no excuse not to have rings then!

Thanks to the comments on this thread I went back and rewatched the ring height of RC / PE1 and realized I had been setting my rings much lower, so that my butt was barely off the ground when holding my body straight.

 

Today I began week nine (4x12r) and, holy crap, this new height made them so much harder... but in a very good way. All of a sudden all the muscles were WORKING. Lats, biceps, forearms... they got ROASTED. Previously I was hinging at the waist and catching myself in a static position, using mainly the lats. Now I'm pulling myself in and out of position and WOW does this feel like it's going to do good things to my body.

 

Wow wow wow... ow ow ow. Falling off the rings on the last set.