Is high carb low fat/protein lifestyle suitable for GST ?

[Deins Drengers]

Hi !

 

I'm looking for some opinions here.

 

Is high carb low fat/protein diet good for building gymnastics strength and muscle ?

 

From my point of view it is good for endurance sports.

 

Does anyone have any opinion about this ?

[Riku Calderón]

It is not suitable for humans in my opinion

[Deins Drengers]

Thats all ?

[Mikkel Ravn]

What, no protein? More protein = gooder, just ask any bro

[Joshua Slocum]

What do you consider "high carb"? 60% calories from carbs? 80%? 90%?

 

You need a certain amount of dietary fat to stay healthy, and if you're strength training you need a good amount of protein. Once you've satisfied your basic requirements, I wouldn't imagine that the way you fill in the rest of your macros is going to have a profound effect on your performance, however. 

[Justin Goodhart]

Hi !

 

I'm looking for some opinions here.

 

Is high carb low fat/protein diet good for building gymnastics strength and muscle ?

 

From my point of view it is good for endurance sports.

 

Does anyone have any opinion about this ?

So you think it's good for endurance sports and you're probably only partially right. High carb with low fat and low protein? Sounds like a disaster for any serious athlete. 

It may help you slide by but in gymnastics for building strength and muscle I'd say it's a joke. It's like shooting yourself in the foot then going for a walk. 

All optimized nutrition requires a hefty dose of self-experimentation, but high carb low fat, low protein seems like MADNESS. (AND THIS IS SPARTA!)

Why is this even something you're curious about? What are your motivation behind wanting to eat this way? 

I would say optimal gains require would take into consideration fat and protein intake, EARNING your carbs, and getting a lot of micronutrients from veggies, seeds, and other vegetable sources. 

/2cents

[Aaro Helander]

Endurance athletes do require a lot of carbs, but keep in mind that their total energy consumption tends to be huge, and they are not just eating carbs to cover that up.

 

A huge amount of carbs is not needed in the level of gymnastics and workloads most of us on this forum do. Also, remember that getting too little fats, especially saturated fats (good ones, egg yolks etc.) will drain your hormonal production, and a hampered testosterone production isn't going to get you more muscles.

 

Also, unless you're planning on eating mostly sweets, a high-carb diet get's boring. Starches without any fat is going to get really boring, really fast.

 

Also, high amounts of protein seem to help with stress caused by high workloads, and protein is not just for covering up your muscle gains.

[Deins Drengers]

So you think it's good for endurance sports and you're probably only partially right. High carb with low fat and low protein? Sounds like a disaster for any serious athlete. 

It may help you slide by but in gymnastics for building strength and muscle I'd say it's a joke. It's like shooting yourself in the foot then going for a walk. 

All optimized nutrition requires a hefty dose of self-experimentation, but high carb low fat, low protein seems like MADNESS. (AND THIS IS SPARTA!)

Why is this even something you're curious about? What are your motivation behind wanting to eat this way? 

I would say optimal gains require would take into consideration fat and protein intake, EARNING your carbs, and getting a lot of micronutrients from veggies, seeds, and other vegetable sources. 

/2cents

Was reading about Vegans and their approach. Was curious about it. The diet/lifestyle that they promote is 80/10/10 ( carbs/protein/fat )

[Deins Drengers]

What do you consider "high carb"? 60% calories from carbs? 80%? 90%?

 

You need a certain amount of dietary fat to stay healthy, and if you're strength training you need a good amount of protein. Once you've satisfied your basic requirements, I wouldn't imagine that the way you fill in the rest of your macros is going to have a profound effect on your performance, however. 

80/10/10 (  carbs/protein/fats)  Just started to read about it and wanted to hear your opinion.

[Martin Heilmann]

Concerning the 80/10/10: I`ve been eating that way for almost 8 months and it really drained everything out of my body. I`ve lost almost 10 kg and my performance was at the bottom. I felt really weak all the time....so  i´ve definitly learned my lesson and changed to something like 60/20/20 afterwards. Having done that it took some time until my body got used to that higher fat and protein intake again. But now, almost 1 year later i`ve gained that 10kg again and am feeling really great Of course no one can hinder you of trying it out yourself but i wouldn`t recommend it brother

[Matthew Proulx]

I don't think Vegans have a specific approach just like omnivores don't all subscribe to the same approach. There are vegans with well rounded diets and ones who eat poorly just like there are healthy diet omnivores and junk omnivores.

Increasing testosterone can also be accomplished via getting enough sleep and lifting heavy with most of your mm mass, like DLs and squats, etc... 

And egg yolks are not healthy as they are high in cholesterol. What's that? The cholesterol in egg yolks doesn't cause increased cholesterol? Teh internetz told you so it's a fact? Ok, provide me with the journal article(s) that shows that the cholesterol in food does not result in higher cholesterol. 

Plenty of studies prove that eggs are not the culprit and neither is cholesterol, saturated fat is far more harmful. Eggs are very low in saturated fat. In japan the average person eats 328 eggs a year yet they have low cholesterol and the lowest rate of heart disease. Why? Because their diet happens to have lower saturated fat. I won't provide any studies though there are hundreds out there. DO your own research, form your own conclusions, but don't talk down something because you are not willing to do the research. I myself have a low cholesterol eat very little carbs and eat 6 eggs and 4 chicken legs every single day. I don't need studies to prove anything.

[Matthew Proulx]

As I said there are plenty, and I didn't actually need to post anything, but here are two of many refuting the 2 studies you posted. As I said form your own conclusions because there is no real truth out there. We may as well all live in an airtight container and eat food from a toothpaste bottle if we want to be paranoid. 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10217054?dopt=Citation

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16340654?dopt=Citation

 

 

 

I would also suggest reading this article by Charles Poliquin, someone who has worked with hundreds of athletes and has a large pool of conclusions to draw from. 
http://www.poliquingroup.com/ArticlesMultimedia/Articles/Article/1123/Five_Reasons_Eggs_Are_Good_For_You_Five_Egg_Danger.aspx

[Tristan Curtis]

I would recommend stay the f___ away from it. I was 80/10/10 (actually closer to 90/5/5) 100% raw vegan for 18 months. I was really into it - like #1 life priority into it. I participated in the site 30 Bananas A Day, met with the fruitarian community on a regular basis, and they became my main social life.

 

I look back on that time and can't help but hang my head and laugh. I met over 1,000 (in real life and online) who did it/tried it and 80-90% of people on the diet gained fat and lost a lot of lean tissue. I myself have only just regained all the lean muscle I lost. The only people I know who have sustained it are obsessive endurance exercisers (like ultra-marathoners, multi-day cycle racers). Also... the teeth problems, hair problems, bone problems. The worst thing is how addicted to food you get, because your blood sugar is constantly roller-coastering up and down, so you live life one "hit" at a time with a meal that lasts you about 30-45 minutes. And because you spend your entire life eating, you have to become very one-dimensional.

 

I'm pretty embarrassed to look back and think I got so caught up in the cult-like ideology, despite reality screaming about how bad it is. But live and learn...

[Kevin Conley]

You can't just say plenty of studies show eggs are not the culprit and neither is cholesterol and provide no evidence. You can't expect me to believe your info on Japanese egg consumption without a reference. I'm not talking something down. I'm asking people who subscribe to the belief that eggs do not result in high cholesterol to prove it. Also, no disrespect, but your own personal experience is not enough for anyone to draw a conclusion from; you may have low cholesterol despite eating eggs because of any number of factors such as your exercise regimen, other factors in your diet, genetic factors, etc...

 

So, 

Here is 1 meta analysis showing the link between dietary cholesterol and serum cholesterol:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1534437

 

And now here is 1 paper showing the link between high serum cholesterol and disease:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23643053

 

If you wish to post a rebuttal in the form of other references or a criticism of the articles I attached that would be great.

Wow this topic again.... Yes, dietary cholesterol WILL have an effect on your serum cholesterol...if your a vegan. However, once you hit 200mg of dietary cholesterol in 1 day (about 1 egg), any additional dietary cholesterol has a negligible effect on serum cholesterol. Dietary cholesterol effects on serum cholesterol levels are based on a Michaelis-Menten curve. This was known about decades ago.

 

If you worry about cholesterol levels, saturated fat has a much more significant effect on serum cholesterol levels, and the types.

[Deins Drengers]

I would recommend stay the f___ away from it. I was 80/10/10 (actually closer to 90/5/5) 100% raw vegan for 18 months. I was really into it - like #1 life priority into it. I participated in the site 30 Bananas A Day, met with the fruitarian community on a regular basis, and they became my main social life.

 

I look back on that time and can't help but hang my head and laugh. I met over 1,000 (in real life and online) who did it/tried it and 80-90% of people on the diet gained fat and lost a lot of lean tissue. I myself have only just regained all the lean muscle I lost. The only people I know who have sustained it are obsessive endurance exercisers (like ultra-marathoners, multi-day cycle racers). Also... the teeth problems, hair problems, bone problems. The worst thing is how addicted to food you get, because your blood sugar is constantly roller-coastering up and down, so you live life one "hit" at a time with a meal that lasts you about 30-45 minutes. And because you spend your entire life eating, you have to become very one-dimensional.

 

I'm pretty embarrassed to look back and think I got so caught up in the cult-like ideology, despite reality screaming about how bad it is. But live and learn...

Thanks !

[Deins Drengers]

I would recommend stay the f___ away from it. I was 80/10/10 (actually closer to 90/5/5) 100% raw vegan for 18 months. I was really into it - like #1 life priority into it. I participated in the site 30 Bananas A Day, met with the fruitarian community on a regular basis, and they became my main social life.

 

I look back on that time and can't help but hang my head and laugh. I met over 1,000 (in real life and online) who did it/tried it and 80-90% of people on the diet gained fat and lost a lot of lean tissue. I myself have only just regained all the lean muscle I lost. The only people I know who have sustained it are obsessive endurance exercisers (like ultra-marathoners, multi-day cycle racers). Also... the teeth problems, hair problems, bone problems. The worst thing is how addicted to food you get, because your blood sugar is constantly roller-coastering up and down, so you live life one "hit" at a time with a meal that lasts you about 30-45 minutes. And because you spend your entire life eating, you have to become very one-dimensional.

 

I'm pretty embarrassed to look back and think I got so caught up in the cult-like ideology, despite reality screaming about how bad it is. But live and learn...

But then again , why are they promoting it so much? Its not like they are making a big profit out of it. But i has some good and bad feedback, when you dont actually know how to trust..  Why are things always so complicated ?

[Martin Heilmann]

But then again , why are they promoting it so much? Its not like they are making a big profit out of it. But i has some good and bad feedback, when you dont actually know how to trust..  Why are things always so complicated ?

 

You know, it seems that everyone tries to sell "his" diet as the best one. The most important thing i took out of 80/10/10 (or even 90/5/5 like wheezer mentioned) is that there isn`t a perfect diet that fits everyone. We are unique and our bodies often respond differently to the same approach... Don´t let anybody tell you that you have to do something because it`s better for you. Just listen to your body and do what feels good for you and not what another told you is good for him. If you don`t have any problems with your current diet plan don`t change it brother

[Deins Drengers]

You know, it seems that everyone tries to sell "his" diet as the best one. The most important thing i took out of 80/10/10 (or even 90/5/5 like wheezer mentioned) is that there isn`t a perfect diet that fits everyone. We are unique and our bodies often respond differently to the same approach... Don´t let anybody tell you that you have to do something because it`s better for you. Just listen to your body and do what feels good for you and not what another told you is good for him. If you don`t have any problems with your current diet plan don`t change it brother

Always looking for ways to improove performance, well-being

[Tristan Curtis]

There is surprisingly decent money in the high-carb low-fat (eg. 80/10/10) "community". I know of ten or so people who make a living with an 80/10/10 web presence (mainly through YouTube) and then monetize it with advertising, e-books, coaching. A few of them support themselves through YouTube ads alone. Many give raw vegan "personal coaching" over e-mail for $100 up to $2,000 month and people do actually buy that.

 

The problem is so many people have run into health problems. In the past, these people were ostracized from the "community", but now with social media there are no more secrets, and the gurus have gone on the offensive to keep their reputation and business alive. They promoted themselves as knowing "the perfect diet for everyone", and now they are aggressively defending their claims.

 

It's not only defending their income, it's also their identity; eating fruit is who many of these people are. It also seems to attract a significantly high number of psychopaths. A friend of mine in Adelaide who is an endurance athlete wrote an article about the conduct of one of these gurus and commented on the diet. He then went out, got home, checked his voicemail, and the guru had left a message saying, "I will f___ing cut you" among other similar things.

 

I agree there is no perfect diet for everyone, but I saw enough signs the diet itself is generally a bad idea. 90% (and that's a conservative figure) of 80/10/10 fans are under the age of 21 and stay on the diet for less than three months. In other words, the community is a rotating door for teenagers - mainly girls, and I will add mainly young girls with an eating disorder background. I don't say that lightly, the percentage of ED backgrounds in the people I met is an overwhelming trend. The turning point for me was I realized I fit into the same demographic: young, ideological, an eating disorder past - I was perfect for the funnel.

 

The key is let your results be your guide, not ideology. 80/10/10'ers generally ignore their results. I made eight good friends with 80/10/10ers when I lived in Melbourne three years ago. I have seen pictures of all of them this year, and seven of them are significantly fatter, less muscular and with terrible skin. Yet they promote the diet like it's the best thing that has ever happened to them.

 

Many of the 80/10/10'ers that are showpony'ed for their impressive physiques have a conventional diet/athletic background, and have been on the diet for less than six months.

 

I think the moral of the story is: be clear on what you want from your body, experiment, give things a good try, don't get too attached to any approach, and let your results be your guide.

[Deins Drengers]

There is surprisingly decent money in the high-carb low-fat (eg. 80/10/10) "community". I know of ten or so people who make a living with an 80/10/10 web presence (mainly through YouTube) and then monetize it with advertising, e-books, coaching. A few of them support themselves through YouTube ads alone. Many give raw vegan "personal coaching" over e-mail for $100 up to $2,000 month and people do actually buy that.

 

The problem is so many people have run into health problems. In the past, these people were ostracized from the "community", but now with social media there are no more secrets, and the gurus have gone on the offensive to keep their reputation and business alive. They promoted themselves as knowing "the perfect diet for everyone", and now they are aggressively defending their claims.

 

It's not only defending their income, it's also their identity; eating fruit is who many of these people are. It also seems to attract a significantly high number of psychopaths. A friend of mine in Adelaide who is an endurance athlete wrote an article about the conduct of one of these gurus and commented on the diet. He then went out, got home, checked his voicemail, and the guru had left a message saying, "I will f___ing cut you" among other similar things.

 

I agree there is no perfect diet for everyone, but I saw enough signs the diet itself is generally a bad idea. 90% (and that's a conservative figure) of 80/10/10 fans are under the age of 21 and stay on the diet for less than three months. In other words, the community is a rotating door for teenagers - mainly girls, and I will add mainly young girls with an eating disorder background. I don't say that lightly, the percentage of ED backgrounds in the people I met is an overwhelming trend. The turning point for me was I realized I fit into the same demographic: young, ideological, an eating disorder past - I was perfect for the funnel.

 

The key is let your results be your guide, not ideology. 80/10/10'ers generally ignore their results. I made eight good friends with 80/10/10ers when I lived in Melbourne three years ago. I have seen pictures of all of them this year, and seven of them are significantly fatter, less muscular and with terrible skin. Yet they promote the diet like it's the best thing that has ever happened to them.

 

Many of the 80/10/10'ers that are showpony'ed for their impressive physiques have a conventional diet/athletic background, and have been on the diet for less than six months.

 

I think the moral of the story is: be clear on what you want from your body, experiment, give things a good try, don't get too attached to any approach, and let your results be your guide.

Thanks man ! I think im gona add something from this into my eating habits - Some fruit / veggie smoothies and more fruits and veggies in general. 

[Tristan Curtis]

[Tristan Curtis]

Some fruit / veggie smoothies and more fruits and veggies in general. 

 

Awesome dude! Just keep an eye on the smoothies, as it's really easy to get a crazy amount of calories in.

[Damon Amato]

You can't just say plenty of studies show eggs are not the culprit and neither is cholesterol and provide no evidence. You can't expect me to believe your info on Japanese egg consumption without a reference. I'm not talking something down. I'm asking people who subscribe to the belief that eggs do not result in high cholesterol to prove it. Also, no disrespect, but your own personal experience is not enough for anyone to draw a conclusion from; you may have low cholesterol despite eating eggs because of any number of factors such as your exercise regimen, other factors in your diet, genetic factors, etc...

 

So, 

Here is 1 meta analysis showing the link between dietary cholesterol and serum cholesterol:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1534437

 

And now here is 1 paper showing the link between high serum cholesterol and disease:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23643053

 

If you wish to post a rebuttal in the form of other references or a criticism of the articles I attached that would be great.

The meta analysis provided is from 22 years ago - before any investigators in those studies began testing LDL-P.  It does show that in some cases total cholesterol can rise with serum cholesterol.  The question is: who gives a shit?  Having higher total CHO does not correlate with higher risk.  The paper citing a link between high serum cholesterol and disease was a meta-analysis on separate 4-week long studies of mostly already diseased people, not healthy people who have different metabolisms all the way down to the cellular level.  I'm not saying you're completely wrong, but those links are not nearly sufficient evidence based on what we know of human physiology.  I think the following links below are better studies for which to draw conclusions from:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19852882

http://content.onlinejacc.org/article.aspx?articleid=1133027

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9395267

-        http://www.westonaprice.org/cardiovascular-disease/myths-a-truths-about-cholesterol

http://www.primalbody-primalmind.com/?p=12

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/The-Cholesterol-Myths.html

 

            http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/the-straight-dope-on-cholesterol-part-i

[Julian Aldag]

Why does this have to be so hard?  Just eat real food. Get  off the crap. If you eat eggs, eat them whole. Dietary fats are needed to make hormones in the body. If you cut the fat, you will eventually suffer.  Sure some people do great on Vegan diets, but other people it crushes them. Same for high fat diets.   There is no perfect diet for everyone. 

 

Step 1:  Cut the crap out of the diet (sugar, processed food, vegetable oils etc)

Step 2: Eat more different types of food - try to eat all colours of the rainbow (Beets, greens, peppers, oranges etc)

Step 3: Go organic - Will limit exposure to endocrine distruptors, toxins, poor meat quality and will have better nutrition composition. 

Step 4: Tweak/explore/try different macro nutrients  (pro/carb/fat) for performance purposes.

 

Its not rocket science.  And you will feel better nourishing your body with the steps above than crying yourself to sleep because you ate an egg yolk.

[Mark Schoenhard]

Anybody explored Ayurveda?  Everything, including diet, is based on your body type.  I am believing that everything needs to be individualized.