Started by pyleofalex, March 30, 2014 · 51 Replies · 17,585 Views
I'm interested in what basic moves have the most possible progression, and preferably possible without equipment?
The L-sit is something in my mind, not too difficult to begin, but seems to have a lot of room to grow with just that position (V-sit, manna, hollow back press?).
Any other contenders? Also the more full-body the exercise, the better.
I understand your point, however a hollowback press has nothing to do with the L-sit progressions.
The three exercises you are looking for are hollowback press, rope climb and press handstand.
Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer
I guess I meant this:
From an L-sit position you can then go further into a V-sit, or into manna, or into a handstand. All from that one starting point of L-sit. Would it not be possible to obtain those skills with sole focus on just L-sit and then progressing into whichever direction you desire?
pyleofalex said:I guess I meant this:
From an L-sit position you can then go further into a V-sit, or into manna, or into a handstand. All from that one starting point of L-sit. Would it not be possible to obtain those skills with sole focus on just L-sit and then progressing into whichever direction you desire?
It is certainly possible. Manna is typically taught beginning with L-sit while pressing through V-sit. A straddle or stalder press handstand start at straddle L-sit.
Hollow Back Press starts with the bottom position of a push up. Think full planche into a handstand.
Ah, sorry for that confusion. So, in your experience are there any other contenders aside from L-sit? I suppose you could reach all the same positions starting with a push-up as well, just in a different order.
pyleofalex said:I guess I meant this:
From an L-sit position you can then go further into a V-sit, or into manna, or into a handstand. All from that one starting point of L-sit. Would it not be possible to obtain those skills with sole focus on just L-sit and then progressing into whichever direction you desire?
L-Sit is a different progression than hollowback press or handstand. L-Sit targets hip flexion, so exercises like V-Sit or Manna does belong in the same category because they also target hip flexion.
However, hollowback press is part of the pushing category, while handstand is part of the scapula protraction/elevation category
I realize they're all different or there would be no point, I'm just looking to only train 1 specific thing every single day, nothing else. Will L-sit be my best bet or do you think it's better to start via hollowback press?
pyleofalex said:I realize they're all different or there would be no point, I'm just looking to only train 1 specific thing every single day, nothing else. Will L-sit be my best bet or do you think it's better to start via hollowback press?
Start with L-sit using a set of parallettes.
Is there anything to watch out for if I skip right to floor? Keep in mind I still cannot even L-sit, I'm still resting my feet on the ground and just getting used to holding my body up with proper spinal alignment and straight legs.
Do it on higher parallel bars.. That will allow your legs to be a little inclined towards the ground which is not possible with parallettes. Then when you get stronger, lift your legs higher and higher until you get them perfectly straight. At that point, start doing it on parallettes . That's what I would do.
I'm pretty much going to do it on the floor unless there is a striking reason to avoid so, even if progression is slower. It's just far too convenient for me.
I guess I don't really understand the premise. Why would you limit yourself to one movement? I can say that you won't get from l-sit to handstand without working handstand specifically. It doesn't really work like that. Movements should be combined once they are mastered individually. If you only work one at a time this will be a long and tedious process. You will also develop imbalances.
Why would you assume I couldn't get from L-sit to handstand? Yes this will be a long process, but not tedious 
pyleofalex said:Why would you assume I couldn't get from L-sit to handstand? Yes this will be a long process, but not tedious
Because Handstand requires a number of things that l-sit won't train. Shoulder mobility, alignment, balance, etc... Not working these things together will be very slow. And if you try to immediately go from l-sit to handstand without working the handstand it will be tedious. A good press handstand requires alignment to already be in place. Im not saying it is impossible to get there this way but it is very very inefficient and will take orders of magnitude longer.
Sounds like a fun challenge, thanks
pyleofalex said:I'm pretty much going to do it on the floor unless there is a striking reason to avoid so, even if progression is slower. It's just far too convenient for me.
I mentioned the parallettes for a little bit of extra ground clearance as you transition into a tucked or even piked planche as you progress further into a press handstand.
That's fine, I think I'll stick to the ground, and if I really need the extra space I'll slowly slowly start creeping up onto my fingers. With proper shoulder depression I think it should be alright though.
Working on L sit with get you an L sit and not much else.
You will not press handstand unless you learn to handstand first. It is a completely different skill and one of the most important you can ever learn if you want to train with your own bodyweight. Also, i can promise you that you will not learn to pike press L sit to handstand on floor without bending your legs/and or arms until you can do 3 or so perfect oneson paraletes and your handstand is flawless. I can press from L sit on floor and I know the training it takes. This is many years worth of work.
Once I master an L sit I would keep progressing, I'm aware sitting in the same position forever will not grant me special skills.
Please stop stating absolutes, "you will not" is absurd to say the least. "You should not" is even against my philosophy, so I'll settle with "You might not experience the best results", and I'm perfectly okay with that.
You can also promise me all you want, but your promise has no effect on my will power. I have many many years left, if this were easy I would get bored.
Actually "you will not" is accurate.
Whether or not you like to hear it is inconsequential. Your proposed plan is unrealistic and doomed to failure.
Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer
I look forward to my impending doom, and will keep you all posted on it.
I think this is a closed case. The OP has been warned that the method of progression will not work by two extremely knowledgeable people, nothing really more to say.
My statement is not absurd at all. Nothing is impossible of course, but many things are a waste of time. The reason I said it does not work is simply because I have seen very many try and fail to learn these kinds of skills, bboys, circus artists, street workout people, yoga practitioners, etc. I have done circus school under one of the best handstand coaches out there, and I know the process of learning and doing press handstands inside out. Even for me, who is working as a professional handbalancer, doing an L sit press from sitting on the floor is quite hard.
If you do not have mobile enough shoulders, doing even a straddle press from standing is literally impossible without planching(leaning heavily forwards) it because of pure physics. You will not, in any way, build the required flexibility(both active and passive) needed to handstand or press into it without doing specific work on it.
L sit translates quite intuitively into V-sit, but it is not so when comparing to press to handstand. When working from an Lsit on floor, the easy part would be to hit 30-60 seconds of holding it. Next up would be lifting your hips up a bit, and your feet would hit the floor. Again you would have to build up a VERY high degree of pike flexibility, excellent shoulder alignment, and abdominal compression to be able to get through, neither of which is learned from L sit itself. Alignment, scapular strength and compression comes from handstand work and there is no way around it.
Done the most efficient way possible, this is something which takes many years to learn. Trust me, it is hard enough no matter which way you work for it.
Out of curiosity, would it be more possible or less possible (again, assuming all things are) to start out with handstand work and begin lowering into an L-sit? Or is going from L-sit to handstand more practical?
That basically just goes back to the original question, comparing handstands vs L-sits now.
A proper press handstand is biomechanically an extension of a strong handstand, so yes. I have written several posts about it on the forum, so you could search for some of them if you want more detail. 9 out of 10 people will compensate by bending arms if they start learning it from the bottom(on bars where you can do that to let your legs pass) because the chain of muscles that needs to do the work will not be conditioned well enough. You will use what you have, and daily life activities and "normal" training will have given you more bent arm strength than strong scapular control with straight arms.
In short, an abbreviated progression could look something like the following: Handstand 30-60 sec solid - straddle negative to the floor - pike negative to the floor-straddle press from standing - straddle negative to straddle L - pike press from standing - Pike negative to L sit - straddle L press - L sit press.
The handstand is the most important since it will directly affect the efficiency with which you can press, so if you are only going to use 1 exercise, it would be a good one to chose, but you must learn it well.