Strength Athlete Switching to Gymnastics

Hey Everbody!  This is a bit long but will be my introduction post.  I intend to transition to gymnastics.  I have been involved in sports my whole life.  I played every sport you can think of as a kid and was excellent in all of them.  i have always been an athletic person and about 10 years ago i started power lifting.  Then I got into bodybuilding.  I got up to 200 lbs, I am 5"9.  Right now I about 165 all muscle.  Using traditional strengh training metrics, it means my transition to gymnastics might be a little easier.

 

Here is my current strength per weightlifting standards: (which probably means nothing in gymnastics)

 

Weighted Dip: 160LBS + BW for 5 reps

Weighted Wide Grip Pullup: BW + 60LBS for 8 re[s

Wide Grip Bench Press: 265LBS for 5 reps

Military Press: 90LBS for 5 reps

Strict Bar Muscle Up: 13 reps

Strict Ring Muscle Up: 12 reps

Hand Stand Pushup: 8 reps

One arm Pushup: 8 reps

 

One day while deadlifting heavy weight I aggravated and discoverd I had a spondylolisthesis problem by injury the area while locking out a rep.  As a result, I can do no more squats, leg presses or deadlifts.  Instead I do weighted pullups, muscle ups, one legged squats, etc.  I also did jiu jitsu for 5 years, which i suffered too many injuries to count from; broken ribs, broken big toe on my left foot (still not healed 4 years later I never went to the doctor-i was young and dumb), and a hernia next to my belly button which I never went to the doctor for.  The hernia, spondylolisthesis and toe really don't bother me much, but can If i move the toe a certain direction or do too many crunches.  The spondylolisthesis hurts if i bend backwards at the back.

 

I would like to know where to begin.  I have a school about 3 miles from my house.  I have been doing frog stands, working my way up to a plank.  Any advice you can recommend would be great for building the initial strengh necessary for gymnastics.

 

Unfortunately, weightlifting strength doesn't transfer well to Gymnastics Strength Training, so you'll have to start at the beginning with the Foundation 1 and Handstand 1 courses

Hmms said:

Unfortunately, weightlifting strength doesn't transfer well to Gymnastics Strength Training, so you'll have to start at the beginning with the Foundation 1 and Handstand 1 courses

nope he has a strong bent arm strength foundation this will help him alot foundation 1 is for complite beginers

DiTi said:

nope he has a strong bent arm strength foundation this will help him alot foundation 1 is for complite beginers

This is incorrect. Bent arm strength is just one of many aspects of strength. It would be unwise to skip F1 just because you're strong in one way. Bent arm strength does not transfer at all to core strength or leg strength or mobility, and only slightly to straight arm strength. Everyone should begin by testing themselves for mastery on the first elements in F1. For those that you can master along with their iM, you should move on; those elements that you can't demonstrate mastery of you need to work on before moving on.

Long-term success in GST comes from systematically identifying and eliminating your weaknesses, not from working on the hardest exercise you can perform.

Joshua Slocum said:

Long-term success in GST comes from systematically identifying and eliminating your weaknesses, not from working on the hardest exercise you can perform.

Amen to that.  I found out recently that working ring pushups and rows helped increase my max pullups and dips.  I can't wait to see what I'm capable of when my working level is pullups and dips....

lysanderspooner said:

 

Weighted Dip: 160LBS + BW for 5 reps

Weighted Wide Grip Pullup: BW + 60LBS for 8 re[s

Wide Grip Bench Press: 265LBS for 5 reps

Military Press: 90LBS for 5 reps

Strict Bar Muscle Up: 13 reps

Strict Ring Muscle Up: 12 reps

Hand Stand Pushup: 8 reps

One arm Pushup: 8 reps

 

Very impressive dude, very impressive. Your having gotten up to those sorts of numbers speaks of great dedication. You'll surely get wherever you want to go if you apply the same work ethic.

By the way, 13 strict bar muscle ups, that sounds insane. By strict do you mean no kipping, no momentum or both? 13 is a very good number either way, but if it's for no momentum, you would have blown my mind.

those military presses confuse me. 90lbs *5 is ridiculously low in comparison to handstand push ups or your bench press and dip numbers?!

DieKatze said:

those military presses confuse me. 90lbs *5 is ridiculously low in comparison to handstand push ups or your bench press and dip numbers?!

OP probably mean headstand pushups, not the full ROM handstand pushups.  Either way with a bodyweight of 165 that should be a little higher.

ok, could be. but even without the handstand push ups those numbers are really strange.

DieKatze said:

ok, could be. but even without the handstand push ups those numbers are really strange.

Probably just missing a 1.

The muscle ups are done without momentum, without kipping or swining, they are strict.

The military presses are 90lb dumbbell per hand.

When i say handstand pushups, i mean with my feet up in the air upside down lowering myself as low as i can then pushing myself back up.
 

So i called around to all the gymnastic gyms around me, none within a reasonable driving distance have rings or any other of the things male gymnists need to build base strength and train on.  Bummer. 

Lysander, it's very wise that you are making the transition to GST for your long term physical health.

 

I assume the  spondylolisthesis (SpLy) is of the L4 or L5 vertbral body?

 

As an Osteopath, I would like to say take it easy with the backbends and always air on the side of caution when approaching or attempting backward bending movements, due to the SpLy. Your priority is to stabilise the lumbar spine/abdominal region and not make it more unstable than it already is! That being said, given time and patience there is no reason why you can not improve the range of your back bends without aggravating the SpLy, you need to gain length along the spine and decompress the lumbars, improve the mobility in your thoracic spine and improve the state of your abdominals and by that i refer to the hernia. The foundation series will do all that nicely.

 

For the hernia, you basically have a gap in the linea alba around the umbilicus and this is pertinent to your function of the abdominals, diaphragm, pelvic floor and their role in stabilising and control of the lumbar spine.

 

Do you know if you were born with it i.e always had it, or from the heavy lifting also?

 

The linea alba is made of dense connective tissue and unites the 2 halves of the rectus abdominis muscle, the obliques and transversus abdominis. When we subject the body to extreme forces (heavy lifting or the body lever type GST elements) it is important that the abdominal cavity can sustain a high pressure to help stabilise the spine and act as hydraulic cylinder to transfer force, a hernia means that this will drop. 

 

If you do crunch type exercises the hernia is aggravated, bulges as the pressure rises. Research has shown best way to help with this is via exercises on all fours. So spending time in front support type positions with transversus and the obliques working is your best option to try and close this gap. You need to generate forces, lines of tension that cross the gap diagonally from left to right and vice versa. Exercises like a long hollow body hold (prone) alternating lifting legs or arms or both will do this sweetly.

 

Don't be in a rush to race through the progressions bro, no more injuries 

Excellent advice friend, EXACTLY what i was looking for.  Thank You. 

 

I notice some pressure induced bulging in the area of the hernia, which is why i do no exercises that pressurize it.  Will everything you said.  Thank You again.

Also, backbends are a no-no at least as of right now.  Yes the spondy is in L4/L5 region and is approx. 25% slippage.  I will be trying to avoid them at all costs and i dont know much about gymnastics right now, but i don't have any interest in doing backflips or anything like that.  I am merely trying to increase total body strength and health through the use of the rings/pommelhorse/parallel bars/etc.

Yeah, leave the backbends for now. If your pelvis is anteriorly tilted (APT), then this facilitates forward slippage of the loose vertebral body (bottom of the deadlift and squat) so the reverse is ideal, posterior pelvic tilting (PPT) will facilitate backward movement relevant to the sacral base.

Almost everything done in the strength elements in GST is with a PPT. Do this even when hanging on a bar and doing pull ups (it will help activate the lower lats), press ups, dips, everything. Stretch out your quads and hip flexors a lot as when tight they promote APT. You need to stretch out the erector spinae muscles, esp in the lumbars and thoracic, pike leans will help here.

I believe it's totally possible to reduce the amount of slippage :-)

lysanderspooner said:

The military presses are 90lb dumbbell per hand.

HAHAHA.  That explains it!

 

You can pick up a pair of rings on amazon for like, 30 bucks.  Best investment I ever made.  Oh, except for that dowel rod I picked up for 50 cents.

I found out that I have SpLy in the L5, about it 17 yrs ago, when i began my lifelong career with a desk job.  I was told by the Doctor that my SpLy was a birth defect and the best thing for me would be to find exercises that strengthen the muscles along the spine.  So, I did try a mixture of body weight rehab exercises and weight lifting.  Weightlifting didn't work out so well for me.  The exercises I found the most painful, (not immediately but a day or 2 later), were squats, bench presses & jogging too often.  So, that got me thinking about what I did as a kid, (before I had knowledge of a problem) Martial Arts. Body weight exercises.  So, with that being said that idea brought me to the discovery of this site back in 2009.  And ever since the release of the Foundation & Handstand Series I can honestly say both have helped me tremendously. The progressions & programming are subtle enough to not cause me any harm and slowly build up strength.  I'm hoping this keeps up. As for your hernia, I'd look at getting that fixed. 

 

Oh, and another thing helping my back is sitting in this chair, okay kneeling in this chair.