MN PE5 to MN PE6: Shoulder discomfort

Guys, great topic. I started out not being able to do any of these, I changed to undergrip and BOOM I could do one.

But it creates a soreness in the shoulder for me - especially in the higher rep weeks...In fact i've found these quite challenging on the grip and arms also  - anyone else encountered that?

Just when I've found my shoulder recovering, i will have the high rep cycle of these and then soreness.  So what's the recommendation - to really master this at lower reps 1st? 

Put in coaches 5.5 exercise of holding the toes to the bar in the top position for 30secs? (building up to of course)

DonGray said:

Guys, great topic. I started out not being able to do any of these, I changed to undergrip and BOOM I could do one.

But it creates a soreness in the shoulder for me - especially in the higher rep weeks...In fact i've found these quite challenging on the grip and arms also  - anyone else encountered that?

 

Just when I've found my shoulder recovering, i will have the high rep cycle of these and then soreness.  So what's the recommendation - to really master this at lower reps 1st? 

Put in coaches 5.5 exercise of holding the toes to the bar in the top position for 30secs? (building up to of course)

I used to really dread this part of the workout, because MN6 would make my shoulders beg for mercy. Now, six or so months later my shoulders have gotten used to it, so I think it is simply a strength issue. My chesticles still get sore every workout though, but I suppose it means they get a lot of stimulation.

The mini progression that helped me was to first do them reverse grip, then with slightly bent arms, and finally with straight arms. Being able to to squeeze your feet to the top rung with completely straight arms, and zero discomfort, is a rewarding experience 

I started out with very low reps, but in general I've found 4x3 a good level to be at, in order to get adequate stimulus and acquaintance with the movement. I must have stayed at 4x3 for months and months - eventually something gives, and you'll be able to add a rep here and there. I'm currently at 5-5-4-4-3, with those last reps being pretty bad.

Ravn, why you get to failure at this exercise on last three sets? Shoulders give up? Grip issue? 

I'm asking because in my case, working at 5x3 is my grip strenght what give up at last sets... my forearms get numb. Is nothing in the legs, shoulders... is pure forearms, like don't want to cooperate and just stop working. Even though I'm pushing very hard in each training, but other thing that is the hell is the endurance when you do more than 2 sets pair with the lovely mobility. Serious, I got to 145 bpm the other week, just awesome how my heart was at the end of the exercise.

Regarding to the thread, now that I'm able to share my experience, I believe that if you are at MN/PE6 and cannot do any reps is that pike flexibility or compression has not been properly adressed in earlier progressions. Of course every one is special and has its weaknesses but I'm a firm believer that earlier iM's prepare your body enought to at least come to MN/PE6 with few reps. If not, keep working on pike active flexibility, Jefferson Curls and of course, MN/PE6 has Ravn has suggested.

Cheers.

Adriano Augusto said:

Ravn, why you get to failure at this exercise on last three sets? Shoulders give up? Grip issue? 

 

Not grip issues, my abs, shoulders and chest just turn to jelly, and I'm simply not able to lower for ten seconds - The legs just fall through the ROM. It's slowly getting better; I'm able to add one-two reps per month.

The iM was hell to begin with, but mostly in the hamstrings. Now it actually feels pretty good. It doesn't affect my grip too badly, but then again, I climb and do bouldering, so my forearm flexors are probably in pretty good shape.

Grip and shoulders were the main issue for me when I started, I have quite weak grip strength and the PE plus the IM put quite a lot of stress on that part.

I remember the first month on this exercise I couldn't complete a full set of 5 reps because of wrist and shoulders, not abs or legs, and that was indeed frustrating.

I think it took me around a couple of months to go from "high discomfort" to "it's nothing", I guess what helped was also that I spent time just hanging from the bar as part of my warmup, plus the amazing mobility driss from HS1.

After that, same as Ravn, leg were just falling down quicker than 10 seconds and couldn't hold them up.

Filling the last reps of the last set took some month...

On the good side I have to say that after this, MN/PE7 felt like a joke

Adriano, I'm at MN/PE6 and like you, my weak point is grip strength 

I just feel a terrible burning sensation in my forearms, nothing in the shoulders and nothing unpleasant in the abs

hh  i had this grip problem. from 5*4 i started using magic powder.. magnesium chalk  it helps. believe me

UPDATE:

My strength is a lot better with these now and I can now just about do 5 x 5r of MN/PE7 Hanging leg lift ... this is with a supinated grip (which should be more difficult anyway)

BUT I'm still struggling with the pronated version (even doing negatives MN/PE6) - it can cause my shoulder to hurt.  So I attempted just to hold my feet at the top for 12 seconds at a time and on bringing my legs down experienced a 'popping' sensation in my right shoulder, it felt like something popped inside and I felt a bit of pain as a result.  It leaves my shoulder feeling a little sore, but I can carry on with my handstands after....I'm just worried that I could do some greater damage.

Does anyone know what this popping is?  It doesn't strike me as being good at all!  Should I scale back even further to just holding pronated for 6 secs at a time with toes to the bar? Or even further back to a previous progression?

As I say supinated is fine and I'm constantly improving with this, but I'm prepared to spend more time to allow my shoulder to adapt to the other (supposedly easier) grip.

I dont know what is it ,but same for me here year ago. I changed my warm ups. My warm ups now are like superior first class flight everytime. No more problems for me anymore.

Ah very good point..I'm not warming up my shoulders anywhere near what I should be (DOH!).

What's the best way to warm up the shoulders for this exercise?

for shoulders i do different arms circles and static 1 min positions like planks ,hanging etc. i follow foundation warm up system too before real work. 

you must know if you are ready or not. thats my suggestion for you. if i feel as stone i spending more time in simple movement until i feel perfect. because i going to do best i can in my main workout.

Let's be careful here. Warming up is obviously good, particularly with shoulders, but this is being described as popping with pain. Let's be conservative here.

First let's make sure the pain is gone! If not, cease and desist this element. 

i'll point out my perspective:

- you are too weak on pulling strength especially in on front lever progression. my brother was stalling in manna while completing the hollowbody rocks. progressively he mastered the elements of bent body lever variations and he approached the single bar inverted hold. his hll starts to become fluid and very nice, basically you won't pull too much but to reach full compression the ass must move away from stallbar, if it moves away you are pulling with lats. notice in the first image of guy doing the negative version on the course , how his ass is barely horizontal....pulling strength nothing more

-reverse the grip it is not the best for shoulders if you have not enough flexibility. the problem is that lat is elongated for the hang and shoulders flexion, also the joint capsule is overstretched. to that you are adding the torque due to the external rotation of the upper arm. if lat it is not enough  elongated the flexion is forced into a rom over you possibility. consequence on shoulders could be not so good.

-i've seen you IM4, you are compensating too much with backward leaning and tacking off the benefits of pike stretch.

-i would like to see you IM5 , especially if you can complete it with 1 pole in between arms and feet.