% of 1 rep max in FBE

Hello everyone,

I've read the BtGB last week and I'm planning to change my workout routine to the ones mentioned in the book. I've been working out with calisthenics for the past few months and have plateaued. my current stats are :-

one arm pushups wide stance - 8 reps
single bar dips - 15 reps

negative HeSPU - 8 reps

Pseudo planche pushups floor - 15 reps

close grip pullups - 5 reps
close grip rows elevated - 8 reps

L-sit PB low - 30 secs

frog stand - 60+ sec

FL tuck - 6 sec (very weak at it)

BL tuck - haven't tried

handstand (wall assisted) - 60+ sec

Since I'm planning to start the BtGB routine next week I want to clear a few doubts regarding the exercises.

1. How much % of 1 rep max should the FBE's be?

2. In the book the coach says we can progress from one FBE to another once the no. sets and reps are achieved (i.e 3 x 5 or 5 x 5) . Whereas in the other threads it is said to do the same sets/reps for 4 - 6 weeks (SSC manner). What one is a better?

3. I understand the Overload, Load and Deload approach but once the FBE's become easier can we progressively increase the no of reps to say 12 (e.g working from 3 x 5 to 3 x 12)?

4. Since I don't have access to XR can I do these exercises on floor and/or bars.

5. What are your thoughts on TRX straps?

6. Based on the stats provided above can you suggest which FBE's should i start this program with.

Thanks in advance for your replies.

Looking forwards to make great gains with Coach Sommers training program.

Hello everyone

Is something inappropriate about this post? I'm only getting more views day by day and no replies. I'm just new to gymnastics training and just need some help !!

Thanks

I actually forgot what fbe means so can't help you there unless I manage to find my btgb copy. Have you looked into the foundation courses on here? That is what I imagine al ost everyone on here is doing or looking to do as it gives you very detailed instruction on how to set up a routine and has far more in depth instruction on the exercises in btgb as well as a list of progressions though each and beyond, including mobility elements to help increase rom and strength in that rom.

It should answer your questions and even answer questions you haven't thought to ask yet

I"ll go look through my btgb copy and get back to you though if you decide for what ever crazy reason that you are not interested in foundation.

Answer 1: 1% of 1 rep max? There is no way to say what your 1 rep max would be using just your body weight, unless you continue to attempt harder variations of similar exercises until you find one that you can't do a single rep of.

Answer 2: A combination of both 5x5 for a number of weeks is better and typically what Coach will advise when building his standard of basic strength. If and or when you are able to start the foundation series, many PE (Preparatory Elements) call for a 5x5 mastery before moving onto the next PE at the beginning of your next cycle.

Answer 3: Personally speaking after one Fundamental Bodyweight Exercises became to easy for me to do I either added a static hold within the range of motion (Embedded static hold) or just moved onto the next hardest variation. If you want to continue to develop a level of muscle endurance, go ahead and add more reps. Generally speaking 15 reps per set is the cut off point for general weight training programs unless one is seeking muscle endurance vs muscle hypertrophy. Be sure to have a deload week once every four weeks especially before going onto the next hardest variation. Plus do a single set of a easier variation as a warm up for a particular FBE. (IE: One set of elevated rows to warm up for your Tuck Front Lever rows)

Answer 4: If you don't have conditioning rings, just don't do the FBE. The reason for the conditioning rings is to continue developing muscle weaknesses you may not know about. As mentioned in answer 3 a particular FBE can be made more difficult.

Answer 5: I am not a fan of TRX handles since they are basically pvc pipe with nylon webbing threaded through them and a comfy foam grip added. I have a set of similar handles that go with one of the home gyms that I have used and while using them it is kind of like using rings, it isn't exactly the same. Standard dips on rings is much harder than on the handles I have. You can make rings out of pvc pipe if you have to due to money constraints. I saved up money for a year to buy the rings I now have.

Read this thread for a decent 4 day routine that a number of others on the forum have used. "The Killroy Template"

Thanks for the detailed answer GoldenEagle. I have a few more questions.

1. Should I keep doing the same FBE for, say, 3 - 4 weeks and when it becomes really easy move on to the next variation after a deload week?

2. What do you mean by " If you don't have rings, just don't do the FBE "? If I don't do those FBE's wouldn't I be unable to progress?

3. I find Some of the most basic FSP's such as tuck FL really hard, so how would I start with them ?

Thanks

1. Yes. I personally have found myself moving onto the next hardest variation after 12 weeks. When one FBE starts to get really easy it is generally acknowledged as a good idea to continue doing the same workout until the end of a workout cycle. [iE: 6 x 15 Underhanded Korean Dips for 8 weeks (with deloads on weeks 4 and 8)]

2. If you don't have something that can take the place of conditioning rings, you won't be able to do the FBE that requires conditioning rings. However that won't stop you from progressing. As mentioned in my previous reply you can still progress by using embedded static holds or "Scaling." (IE: Standard push ups can be made more difficult through scaling if you put your feet on something as tall as 50 cm)

3. All you have to do is look at the pictures in the BtGB book and do your best to mimic what you see. Be sure to execute the movement with strict form. You will be stronger in the long run. Expect greater difficulty and do not be discouraged if you can't do the same amount of reps per set as you used to when you were doing an easier variation. Personally speaking, while following the progressions outlined in BtGB, when I moved on to doing XR Support Hold and XR Dips from Underhanded Korean Dips. I went from completing 60 total reps (6 sets 15, 12, 10, 10, 8, 5) to 15 reps (5 sets of 3 which included holding XR Support)

Thank you so much for replying clearly to my questions GoldenEagle.

I will be starting the training next week onwards. 

Regards

Azhar Abdul Khader said:

3. I find Some of the most basic FSP's such as tuck FL really hard, so how would I start with them ?

You should start your FL training with the L hang.  Once you can complete at least 3x30 seconds, move onto FL progressions.

Thanks for the tip Bipocni !!

Like I sad earlier if you are serious about gst or just getting stronger in general I'd recommend trying the foundation series.

Azhar Abdul Khader said:

I understand the Overload, Load and Deload approach but once the FBE's become easier can we progressively increase the no of reps to say 12 (e.g working from 3 x 5 to 3 x 12)

I find increasing endurance at a given level of strength to be very beneficial to increasing strength and maintaining joint/tendon health.  

@ ausswe - Yes...will go through it 

@ Bipocni - So you're saying we should work till we reach high reps and then move on to the next harder variation? 

Azhar Abdul Khader said:

So you're saying we should work till we reach high reps and then move on to the next harder variation? 

Pretty much yeah.  Obviously this will vary somewhat depending on the intensity of the exercise itself.  It makes sense to build up to 40 pushups before moving on, but what about 40 dips?  40 handstand pushups?  40 planche pushups?  You see what I mean?

Bipocni said:

Pretty much yeah.  Obviously this will vary somewhat depending on the intensity of the exercise itself.  It makes sense to build up to 40 pushups before moving on, but what about 40 dips?  40 handstand pushups?  40 planche pushups?  You see what I mean?

But in the book as well as in other threads it says to keep doing the same amount of reps and sets (i.e 5 x 5 ) for couple of weeks and then move on to the next harder variation.

Azhar Abdul Khader said:

But in the book as well as in other threads it says to keep doing the same amount of reps and sets (i.e 5 x 5 ) for couple of weeks and then move on to the next harder variation.

That is for "Basic" strength and general hypertrophy. To gain more strength and train for "Maximal" strength more total reps is needed. Personally speaking, I'll be doing, strict form, ring dips with my arms off of the rings until I can manage to do 60 total reps. (6 sets 15, 12, 10, 10, 8, 5)

Azhar Abdul Khader said:

But in the book as well as in other threads it says to keep doing the same amount of reps and sets (i.e 5 x 5 ) for couple of weeks and then move on to the next harder variation.

Well sure, if you can hit 5x5 and are capable of performing the next hardest variation.  But then why were you training it in the first place?  You wouldn't do 5x5 incline pushups for a couple weeks, then move onto 5x5 pushups for a couple weeks, then 5x5 decline pushups, then finally start training dips at 5x5 after like, 2 months would you? 

You need to find an appropriate working level, and then stay there for a while.  Whether that's sticking to the same number of reps, or building up endurance or whatever, it's all the same.  The point is not to rush through things too quickly.

GoldenEagle said:

That is for "Basic" strength and general hypertrophy. To gain more strength and train for "Maximal" strength more total reps is needed. Personally speaking, I'll be doing, strict form, ring dips with my arms off of the rings until I can manage to do 60 total reps. (6 sets 15, 12, 10, 10, 8, 5)

But then when you're doing more than 8 reps in those pyramid sets arent you training at submaximal level ?

Bipocni said:

Well sure, if you can hit 5x5 and are capable of performing the next hardest variation.  But then why were you training it in the first place?  You wouldn't do 5x5 incline pushups for a couple weeks, then move onto 5x5 pushups for a couple weeks, then 5x5 decline pushups, then finally start training dips at 5x5 after like, 2 months would you? 

 

You need to find an appropriate working level, and then stay there for a while.  Whether that's sticking to the same number of reps, or building up endurance or whatever, it's all the same.  The point is not to rush through things too quickly.

I'm sorry I'm a bit confused. Would you please elaborate. I'm new to this form of training so I find it a bit confusing.

Azhar Abdul Khader said:

I'm new to this form of training so I find it a bit confusing.

In that case I would strongly recommend picking up Foundation one.  It will guide you step by step through the whole thing, so you don't need to worry about it anymore.

I will say this though: the book has at least one misprint when it comes to planche hold times, and the SSC is designed for more advanced athletes anyway.  Just pick a rep goal and try to achieve it.  When you're comfortable doing that, move on.

Bipocni said:

In that case I would strongly recommend picking up Foundation one.  It will guide you step by step through the whole thing, so you don't need to worry about it anymore.

 

I will say this though: the book has at least one misprint when it comes to planche hold times, and the SSC is designed for more advanced athletes anyway.  Just pick a rep goal and try to achieve it.  When you're comfortable doing that, move on.

Okay. Will go through Foundation One.

Azhar Abdul Khader said:

But then when you're doing more than 8 reps in those pyramid sets arent you training at submaximal level ?

No. General bodybuilding advice would advocate training sets with reps as high as 15 for hypertrophy. After 15 reps the body starts developing endurance.

GoldenEagle said:

....After 15 reps the body starts developing endurance.

The implication being that anything lower than 15 reps you won't be building endurance?

Bipocni said:

The implication being that anything lower than 15 reps you won't be building endurance?

If all one does is 5 reps per set, sure going up to 15 reps will build some endurance. The thing to consider is 15 reps might not be enough stimulation to gain any benefit from the endurance capacity of our slow twitch muscle fibers.

@GoldenEagle How many reps should I do when I move onto the next harder variation of an exercise. let's say, I finished a cycle with single bar under grip dips and then I'm capable of doing only 6 reps of korean dips.

Should I do multiple sets of 6 korean dips or half the no of reps i.e. 3 reps ?

Or should I move on to an exercise which I can only do a maximum of 3 reps and do multiple sets of 3 reps (which I think is gonna fry my CNS) ? 

How to determine which exercise is the next hardest variation ?

Thanks

Azhar Abdul Khader said:

How to determine which exercise is the next hardest variation ?

Well, it will be a bit harder, but not so hard you can't do it.  (Generally speaking)

If you have a copy of BtGB they're mostly listed in order.  There are also tons of progression paths available on google and youtube if you look carefully.