Solving your straddle up problems!

wheezer said:

Must be hottest girl in the gym.

I did something like that at crossfit; stretching pancake at about 1/4 range, asked someone to put some pressure on my back, and flopped down chest to ground at their light touch.

I think I traumatised the poor woman. Well, never claimed to be nice either

Jon Douglas said:

I did something like that at crossfit; stretching pancake at about 1/4 range, asked someone to put some pressure on my back, and flopped down chest to ground at their light touch.

I think I traumatised the poor woman. Well, never claimed to be nice either

Did you also yell out in pain as you were doing it? You know, just to make sure you traumatized her? ;-)

Nah, thought that might be overselling it the intent wasn't to be nasty, my sense of humour just quirks on its own schedule

I can't even sit upright in that position. I can only have my legs half open and my back completely rounded and I still can't even stay in that unless I put my hands behind me to keep me up.  How am i supposed to work on this if I can't even get into a very simplified position of it?  

Do the reverse and lie on your flat back actively contracting your legs towards you.

Or stand up with your legs straddled and work on tilting your pelvis forwards (APT)/flattening your back while you lean forwards.

LateStarter@46 said:

Do the reverse and lie on your flat back actively contracting your legs towards you.

Towards you like trying to bring knee to chest or simply reverse the straddle stretch? I think it may work Wonders with some bands or someone to assist you into CR into it!

Keegan said:

Or stand up with your legs straddled and work on tilting your pelvis forwards (APT)/flattening your back while you lean forwards.

Pelvis forward? Doesn't that makes for ABH? I may be confusing the terms, but pélvis forward makes back caved or did I get it wrong?

Iguanus said:

Towards you like trying to bring knee to chest or simply reverse the straddle stretch? I think it may work Wonders with some bands or someone to assist you into CR into it!

Pelvis forward? Doesn't that makes for ABH? I may be confusing the terms, but pélvis forward makes back caved or did I get it wrong?

Pelvis forwards means that you will retain the natural curve/arch in your lumbar spine. The reason why you cannot sit up straight while in a pancake is that your hamstrings are not allowing your pelvis to naturally rotate forwards/your hips cannot flex so instead you flex from/excessively round your back.

With straddle-ups you don't need perfect pancake flexibility (where you retain your APT and lay completely flat on your stomach while in a straddle split), but you do need more hip flexion than you currently have and you will never get it unless you work on rotating your hips forwards.

one important thing that must be said is that straddle v-ups is an active flexibility. the active flexibility is about muscle tension to achieve the position.

in order to achieve that you need to win the passive connective tissue tension of hamstring. by the way if you are a beginner probably 2 legs lift is actually to much for your body to overcome the total muscles tension.

said that i need to clarify that for gymnastic the passive elongation or passive stretching is recognized as non-functional. what is the reason to develop extreme muscles length if you do not have the strength to move along it?

for that reason long time ago i couple passive elongation with single lateral (about150°) leg extension. simply while standing lift your knee as high as possible with an angle near to your straddle v-ups. then without lateral body flexion or twist extend your legs and hold it (squeeze both abs and butt), repeat from seven to 10 reps then enjoy the cramps.

alex87 said:

one important thing that must be said is that straddle v-ups is an active flexibility. the active flexibility is about muscle tension to achieve the position.

in order to achieve that you need to win the passive connective tissue tension of hamstring. by the way if you are a beginner probably 2 legs lift is actually to much for your body to overcome the total muscles tension.

said that i need to clarify that for gymnastic the passive elongation or passive stretching is recognized as non-functional. what is the reason to develop extreme muscles length if you do not have the strength to move along it?

for that reason long time ago i couple passive elongation with single lateral (about150°) leg extension. simply while standing lift your knee as high as possible with an angle near to your straddle v-ups. then without lateral body flexion or twist extend your legs and hold it (squeeze both abs and butt), repeat from seven to 10 reps then enjoy the cramps.

Just tried this and it really does cramp! How long does it to adapt? I could only get to about 90° (like an L-sit). I start straddle ups next week and worry how long I'm going to be stuck on it.

With 1-2 weeks you really see improvements over the 90°.

Of course i'm not saying that  passive stretch is not helpful but that, with the time, it must be substituted with active flexibility, and if you notice how IM's evolve along the courses, is exactly this process.

from my pov address people only with passive flexibility could be dangerous sometime . instead of that ,address people with active flexibility , is quite secure and full of cramps    .

That's great, thanks. so far I lack passive and active flexibility. Looking forward to straddle ups and Cossack squats.

alex87 said:

simply while standing lift your knee as high as possible with an angle near to your straddle v-ups. then without lateral body flexion or twist extend your legs and hold it (squeeze both abs and butt), repeat from seven to 10 reps then enjoy the cramps.

So you mean to lift your bent leg as high as you can, holding it under the knee and then try to extended it? Or am I misunderstanding?

I think the active stretch Alex is talking about is a bit like this one (start at 1:00, though she is pretty fun to watch from the beginning  )

Mmmm not , i'll use a photo, the red angle stronlly depends on your level of proficiency of MN IM 1.

the row indicates where you look.

the arm down is for emphasize that the upper body does not modify its bodyline, exactly as you are do not modify your body when you perform a straddle V-up, no assistance comes from hand.

this exercise does not substitute IM benefit of F series, it can helps.

alex87 said:

Mmmm not , i'll use a photo, the red angle stronlly depends on your level of proficiency of MN IM 1.

 

So is the goal to have your knee higher, and straighten the leg as much as possible? Or to keep straighten the leg completely with the knee lower?

The first one, knee higher then full extension.

I noticed a very great benefit over my compression on V ups especially if i try to hold the position that, for me, is the hardest part.

Straddle-ups are a sign post on the road towards a Manna, which cannot be performed with a truly flat back like a full pancake is and thus discussing full pancakes in the context of building a Manna seems like a moot point.

Now, in the context of building a straddle press to handstand (H2 stuff), it would be a relavent topic, but I'm sure there is plenty of that in the H2 course.

But, regardless of his opinion, the course demo video has the athlete performing what essentially amounts to a V-Up with the legs slightly apart to increase the leverage to build compression strength. So that is how we should be looking to perform them.

If Coach intended for us to do an active pancake with the lumbar spine extended, then that's what would be demo'd in the Foundation course (because I'd bet dollars to dimes that Coach's athletes could very easily do so if they wanted to and thus aren't doing them "incorrectly" as Kit suggested due to a lack of ability but because Coach made a conscious and informed choice to have the exercise done in that specific manner).

I saw Kit's response on his forum but am waiting for my account to verify, so I'm replying here.

First, I'm not trying to diminish Kit's knowledge in the least. The info he has already released is great, do I'm sure what he will contain in his new course on the pike and pancake will be top notch as well.

I'm also not suggesting that he is "wrong" about a perfect active pancake being done with a flat back.

My point is more so that I think people are incorrectly equating being able to do a perfect pancake (active or passive version) with being able to do MN PE2. Thus when Kit is asked a question about how to develop a perfect pancake (active or passive version), while the advice he gives is correct, it's not necessarily all that contextually relevant to performing Straddle-ups as demo'd in the Foundation course.

His point about not being able to sit up straight with the legs apart (which from what I see by the angle of the athlete's legs to his body in the MN PE2 demo video isn't all that far apart) is definitely true, but if you can't do that then I have a hard time believing that you correctly mastered MN PE1>iM as that should have given you enough mobility to get the pelvis to 90 (or slightly less) degrees to the legs.

His information on developing pike flexibility though would probably be awesome for the MN PE2.

I can do a pancake (passive version), with straight back and my chin touching the floor. Okay, I do this after a long stretching session, not at the word go. But I can hold it for about 30 seconds, or probably longer if I wanted.

But I'm on wk 3 of MN/PE2 and my compression is no where near that demonstrated by the athlete in the video.

Being able to do a pancake is not a pre-requisite for mastering MN/PE2.

I echo Keegan's sentiment that MN/PE1>iM -- done to the same magnitude of compression as demonstrated by the athlete in the video -- is important. So I always warm up my straddle up sessions with this iM.

** But I have found that mastering the Jefferson Curls is what is really making a difference for me in terms of getting better compression in this element.

I agree that a full pancake is not necessary to achieve this.  However lack of flexibility in this area will slow your progress down.  I see no harm in trying to achieve better compression.  

Also manna will be hard to achieve without a full pancake as the press gets much easier the wider you can straddle your legs, so this is a good place to start working this.

Daniel Burnham said:

I agree that a full pancake is not necessary to achieve this. However lack of flexibility in this area will slow your progress down. I see no harm in trying to achieve better compression.

Also manna will be hard to achieve without a full pancake as the press gets much easier the wider you can straddle your legs, so this is a good place to start working this.

Thanks for chiming in Daniel; it's always nice to get perspective from someone who has already achieved the goal in question.

Any specific stretches or mobility exercises that you feel were especially beneficial in getting you to a full pancake? Regardless of it's importance in MN PE2 it's always been a ROM that I have struggled to achieve. My pike has always been good, but legs apart has always evaded me.

If they are already contained in the Foundation course and thus you cannot specifically name them I understand. If you could name them via their course abbreviation (i.e. MN SE4>iM) that would be cool though as I have the whole course and could look and find them.

Thanks.

~Atticus said:

I can do a pancake (passive version), with straight back and my chin touching the floor. Okay, I do this after a long stretching session, not at the word go. But I can hold it for about 30 seconds, or probably longer if I wanted.

 

But I'm on wk 3 of MN/PE2 and my compression is no where near that demonstrated by the athlete in the video.

 

Being able to do a pancake is not a pre-requisite for mastering MN/PE2.

 

You can't reach that conclusion based on the facts you presented. The only thing you can say is that a pancake is not sufficient to master MN/PE2. I'm not close to either a pancake or Mn/PE2 so I don't really have an opinion, but I am a stickler for logic. 

~Atticus said:

 

 

** But I have found that mastering the Jefferson Curls is what is really making a difference for me in terms of getting better compression in this element.

You find this because jefferson curls help build active strength.  The same can be done with pancake