How to specialize in GB WODs?

Coach,

We've been hitting the GB WODs since January, and I think most of the guys I train with have seen terrific results.

We've been talking a bit lately about specialization versus generalizing; the Crossfit methodology has been pretty well reasoned out, and then Ido Portal made some interesting comments on his blog in the Jack of All Trades post.

What would you recommend for anyone who wanted to hit the GB WODs and only the GB WODs full-time?

Should we stick with the 4 GB WODs per week?

Should we increase volume, maybe go 5-6 days?

Perhaps two-a-day sessions?

Would we then have to dial back any Crossfit met-cons, heavy lifting, O-lifting, or sprint-work?

I also have a buddy who was inquiring about shedding some muscle mass --- the guy's solid muscle, so there ain't much fat to drop.

Have you ever had to initiate hypotrophy in your athletes, and how'd you do it? Met-cons? I'm thinking especially for guys who've done a lot of middle- or short-distance running as well as heavy squatting, deadlifting, etc, etc.

thanks much,

jason

I plan to incorporate up to 2h/d of skill training a day in earlier sessions and hitting the WOD about 5-6 hours later. I say add in more skill work prior.

Do you do any CF, metcons, Oly/Heavy lifting, sprinting?

Blairbob said:

I plan to incorporate up to 2h/d of skill training a day in earlier sessions and hitting the WOD about 5-6 hours later. I say add in more skill work prior.

Do you do any CF, metcons, Oly/Heavy lifting, sprinting?

When you say "WOD" 5-6 hours later, you mean GB WOD or a CrossFit wod?

I am the friend of Jasons, crossfitter, and have been doing 2-3 metcons a week, lots of lifting (varies between O-lift and powerlift) and sprinting twice a week. I want to specialize in the GB WODs more and figure I need to cut back on the other stuff. Right now, 4 GB WODs feels like plenty and still making nice gains. Plan on adding flexibility sessions ( weak area) and dialing back to 1xweek metcon, sprinting, and lifting.

xx

Blair (or Bob?),

Thanks for your response. This is where I'm hoping Coach Sommer will be able to share some experience ---

I've been following GB WODs since Christmas, and averaging 2-3 Xfit WODs per week (maybe less). I've been focusing on the metcon WODs, and the last month or so more bodyweight-based, full-ROM metcon WODs.

Sprinting and o-lifting? Not so much. Both endeavors make me noticeably less flexible.

I think a few of us are feeling a bit overextended, to a certain degree. Not overtrained --- just attempting to train too many skills. Some of the other guys I train with are doing sprint-work and O-lifting, as well as prepping and training for Xfit Total lifts.

So throw in 2-3 Xfit metcons (Angie, JT, Bodyweight Fran, etc) and wow.

I've found I tolerate and thrive on a training load like that, and enjoy it --- but am I working at cross-purposes?

If you wanted to commit totally to gymnastics, how would one build on the GB WODs to do so?

How exactly would one incorporate skill-work into a GB WOD?

What exactly constitutes skill work, and how do you program it so it doesn't blow out the WOD, or vice versa?

thanks,

jason

When I say skill training, I mean gymnastics skill training as to the gymnastic events. There are 6 men's events + trampoline.

Ideally, I would get to work early, work out for about 90m-2h, coach for about 5, then do the GB WOD. This is my current plan for M-F. As well, I have access to a pretty much fully stocked and empty gymnastics gym. If I didn't, I would use my mushroom and work what floor skills I could.

So skill training is typically warmup, and always do FX and basics on the other events. Sometimes I work each event just to cover basics or I will only do a few.

For instance it's been brought up that some people miss doing planches and levers in a SSC vs doing it in the WOD. For some Wod's, you could come up with a sample workout plan in case the WOD is primarily pushing ( as it was yesterday ). You could work the statics for 60s, rest a bit and hit the WOD.

Eventually, when I'm strong enough; I'd like to always do HS stuff ( walking, press stuff, pirouettes ) and then work planche/lever stuff then hit the WOD. Now, that I'm switching to a skill work session ( I have time and access ), I can do that before though I probably would do the statics right before a WOD.

On off-days, like Wednesday, Saturday and Sunday, I will go do some sprinting or some CF or lifting. I'm actually looking into joining a physical culture gym that offers open gym for probably about 2x the price of a globo. That means, I could go in and train the olympic lifts 2-3x a week. I'm completely happy only heavy squatting and heavy DL 1x a week each ( which tend to make the next day suck and I'm really glad for a Wednesday day off when DL are on Tuesday ).

Last night I was going to do the WOD, which is mostly pushing, and then come home and do something CF ish like tabata thrusters or tabata interval thrusters and SDHP or tabata KB swings or tabata DB cleans and snatches. Something small just to get a metcon. I was gonna work on MU before the GB WOD as I also missed my skill session earlier because of biz. In anycase, I had nothing in my tank so I decided to come home and try doing the GB WOD which I didn't do after eating ( probably still tired from busy MA seminar weekend and driving/sleeping little and poorly ).

Eventually, I may have my beginning boy's team do the GB WOD as conditioning towards the end of their 3 hours. WU for 30m roughly/play, HS basics for 10, events for 80m, break for 10, one short event for 20, condition for 15, stretch for 10. They do their statics after HS work.

Thanks Blair. Personally, I have a similar experience with heavy lifting. If I go heavy or high volume, the next day feels a little sapped.

I've seen statics mentioned in a couple of posts now (you mention it at the end of your post regarding the boys team) and I only do them when they come up in the WOD. Should they be more of a daily staple in my specializing training than just when they come up in WOD? Man, it seems there is so much to do if you are training to be more of a gymnast! With the O-Lifts, you got three lifts, their variations, core and heavy lift work and you are good to go for a long time.

I am really interested in the 2-3 O-Lift sessions a week you might be getting into. When I was following the Performance Menu WODs, 5 sessions a week was a drain, even after a few months. I would guess that 2-3 O Lift sessions a week at high intensity would be tougher than lifting heavy 1 x week?

xx

Blairbob said:

When I say skill training, I mean gymnastics skill training as to the gymnastic events. There are 6 men's events + trampoline.

Ideally, I would get to work early, work out for about 90m-2h, coach for about 5, then do the GB WOD. This is my current plan for M-F. As well, I have access to a pretty much fully stocked and empty gymnastics gym. If I didn't, I would use my mushroom and work what floor skills I could.

So skill training is typically warmup, and always do FX and basics on the other events. Sometimes I work each event just to cover basics or I will only do a few.

For instance it's been brought up that some people miss doing planches and levers in a SSC vs doing it in the WOD. For some Wod's, you could come up with a sample workout plan in case the WOD is primarily pushing ( as it was yesterday ). You could work the statics for 60s, rest a bit and hit the WOD.

Eventually, when I'm strong enough; I'd like to always do HS stuff ( walking, press stuff, pirouettes ) and then work planche/lever stuff then hit the WOD. Now, that I'm switching to a skill work session ( I have time and access ), I can do that before though I probably would do the statics right before a WOD.

On off-days, like Wednesday, Saturday and Sunday, I will go do some sprinting or some CF or lifting. I'm actually looking into joining a physical culture gym that offers open gym for probably about 2x the price of a globo. That means, I could go in and train the olympic lifts 2-3x a week. I'm completely happy only heavy squatting and heavy DL 1x a week each ( which tend to make the next day suck and I'm really glad for a Wednesday day off when DL are on Tuesday ).

Last night I was going to do the WOD, which is mostly pushing, and then come home and do something CF ish like tabata thrusters or tabata interval thrusters and SDHP or tabata KB swings or tabata DB cleans and snatches. Something small just to get a metcon. I was gonna work on MU before the GB WOD as I also missed my skill session earlier because of biz. In anycase, I had nothing in my tank so I decided to come home and try doing the GB WOD which I didn't do after eating ( probably still tired from busy MA seminar weekend and driving/sleeping little and poorly ).

Eventually, I may have my beginning boy's team do the GB WOD as conditioning towards the end of their 3 hours. WU for 30m roughly/play, HS basics for 10, events for 80m, break for 10, one short event for 20, condition for 15, stretch for 10. They do their statics after HS work.

Blairbob or anyone else,

Do you have recommendations of any kind for someone who wants to specialize in gymnastic workouts--but of a much more rudimentary sort than what you're doing? For the past 3 months and the next six months at least, for a variety of reasons, I plan on doing nothing but gymnastic bodyweight exercises from Coach's book (plus Hiit on a stationary bike 3/days per week). Due to old back and hip problems, the vast majority of my exercises will be for the upper body. I like to train a lot, and I'm currently under the impression that training as much as possible while still recovering will produce the fastest results; for this reason I've done much more volume than seems to recommended by the WOD's. Is this advisable? Do you have any further tips about how to structure workouts?

I'm currently working out 4-6 days/ week: I begin with 30min-1hour (I'm in bad shape cardio wise, so I take long breaks between sets here) practicing handstands and head stand leglifts and occastionally handstand pushups (this is skill training time); then I do 20 min-45 min of skill work typically picking a back lever, front lever or planche hold, and supersetting it for tons of sets (about 10 ) with one or two different FBEs, and then I do between one and three of the other two holds, plus l-sits-often combining them with another FBE or two; the next day I pick a different static position to focus on. My biggest irritation is that I'd like to also focus on high-rep pullups right now, but there isn't really a good place to fit them in.

I gave up looking for volume recommendations, because I figured people had fairly diverse skill levels and recovery abilities and that relatively few 185 pound-out-of-shape-former-but-still-muscular- former powerlifters had gotten into just doing gymnastic strength positions and so no one would be able to give clear guidelines. The result for me has been so far to keep increasing the volume until something (either an elbow or shoulder) starts to ache, and then to cut things back. I've been very pleased with my results, but this thread got me wondering if there is a better, more systematic approach or rules of thumb regarding training volume from people who've had similar goals.

The heavy lifting is pretty easy to program ( only 3-5 sets ) but takes time because of the rest periods (3-5m). As for the oly sessions earlier, it will depend if I can get there. It may end up conflicting with my schedule or I will have to skip gymnastics skill training before work those days or do it after coaching which will mean getting home late. I will either do my own oly programming or the PM stuff without metcon/addt'nl work.

It makes sense that if you want to get better at the statics ( HS< L-sit, levers, planche ) you have to train them more often. Especially when it comes to kicking to a free HS.

I think I will be able to do the 2 workouts a day if I have adequate downtime in between and hydrate and eat enough. The last 2 can be tough to do at the gym while coaching. Ok, near impossible.

Dflevy, so long as your recovery protocols are in place and you are watching your volume and how you're able to cope you should be fine. Personally, I think you need to start back the back and hip exercises at a very low intensity but I'm not really aware of your ailments.

Thanks Blairbob,

I have started back the lower body work, but I am proceeding very cautiously as the area has had and to some extent still has a lot of problems.

good luck.

Gentlemen,

Excellent conversation. I am currently out of town at a Gymnastics Regional Championship and time is at a premium to say the least. However the short answer is; it depends.

And by this I am not being facetious. For example, there have been some World and Olympic Champions who comfortably trained three times a day (e.g. 1983 & 1987 World Champion Dmitry Bilozerchev) and others who could only tolerate training once per day (e.g. 1984 Olympic Champion Koji Gushiken). As Gregor has alluded to in some other posts, it entirely depends on the particular athlete in question. And the only way to ascertain an athlete's recovery ability and preferred volume/intensity for long term productive training is to experiment and find out.

Gregor himself is an excellent example; he performs high level advanced ring strength training two days per week. And I know some others who do not bat an eye at four days per week. Yet all are excellent ring strength specialists.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Coach,

Thanks for your thoughts.

Let me try a more stripped-down question: what would you recommend for someone who wanted to increase GB WODs to 6 days a week?

How would you incorporate skill and strength work on Wednesdays and Saturdays to provide adequate recovery.

My initial thought would be to create a boilerplate WOD for each section in your book (MPP, Legs, etc, etc), and then perform that on the Wednesday and Thursday, selecting it based on how complementary it was to prior workouts.

But then, how to fit metabolic conditioning into the program --- and is it necessary?

My initial post was a bit prescient, apparently --- I had a massive attack of what must be tendinitis in the elbows yesterday during the WOD and had to retire early!

I've been following Pavel's Fighter Pull-up Plan, and I believe that program, plus the last week of GB WODs (plus daily yoga practice) fried my arms. The first set of pull-ups went down well --- and in fact I'm pretty sure with some rest I could set a new PR --- but my biceps and the bottoms of my triceps felt inflated, and ROM decreased with each subsequent set.

The second set of clapping pull-ups was a clear indicator it was time to cash out. Thankfully my wife is a Rolfer and she's sorted me out, though a few days of rest is called for.

regards,

jason

i do not want to hijack that thread but i think it has a place here:

is there any way (besides having an experienced coach) to figure what is the correct workload in general and esp. for gymnastics? is there an other method than increasing volume and/or intensity until it does not match recovery and than cut things a litte as dflevy wrote. of course that method works but puts you in potential injury esp as it takes some tries to get the optimum or you want to start a new activity (e.g. switch completely to gymnastics)

anyone ideas?