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Started by Nash, January 23, 2014 · 30 Replies · 1,046 Views
Hi All,
This is the last set in 5x60s.
My cues: Squeezed gluteus, locked knees, extended shoulders and tucked hips.
Thank you for any feedback.
Mastery?
p.s. Last week (4x60) I was in pure agony in the last 2 sets. This week the pain has diminished significantly. I hope that's a sign of improved tolerance for pain.
Looks good to me! Although you may be able to protract a bit more.
Needs more protraction.
I can't really tell from the video, but are your shoulders shrugged at all? They should remain depressed...
The waist down looks great.
But - the shoulders need more protraction. I focus on slightly curling my torso into an arch, squeezing my serratus anterior and lifting my chest towards the ceiling. With a strong protraction, more of your bodyweight will be taken by your arms.
I think this explains the lack of agony.
Thank you guys! I'll repost in a day or two.
Do the top position of a scapular shrug. Stay there. Maintain it. Hold it. Cry if needed 
Hey guys,
I've been studying my form to see why my protraction isn't good enough. So I filmed 3 videos hoping to get some insight.
It looks like my protraction is maxing out, but just doesn't look like enough.
Do you think this a problem with mobility or lack of strength?
Video 1 (14 sec): Protracting while standing against a wall. Negligible weight. This should show the most I can protract.
Video 2 (12 sec): This is the first 15 seconds of the first set. Not tired at all.
Video 3: Last set. Pain level 9/10 (NUMBNESS!!!).
I may be getting it all wrong, but I think you hips are too low - making back not properly curled. I think it's the same thing I did on monday and will try to fix it today. Take a look at the course pic:
See how the hips go above shoulders line? If you compare to your shoots, you curl the upper back, but the rest of it is straight and hips go lower.
If you check my 17th day vídeo (F & H quest), you'll see that I start with good form (at hips) and 3 secs latter I adjust to improper form - in my head, I was making it proper). It may help that curling the lower back and raising hips will put more pressure on shoulders, so protraction will be more enforced and help with proprioception.
Protraction looks good. Not sure if you need more depression though (I only watched the last video) wait to see what others say.
Iguanus,
The picture you have is for PE2. He's on his elbows which forces his hips over.
If my protraction is good, I'm moving on to PE4.
Any further input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you guys.
-Nash
My bad! But even PE3 still makes hips in line or higher than shoulders
Iguanus said:My bad! But even PE3 still makes hips in line or higher than shoulders
This is something I have been wondering about. In the course material for both PE2 and PE3, the athlete is noticeably piked. Is this an intentional regression from the straight body required in later PE's? Nash is demonstrating the exercise with a straight body, which I believe to be harder. So is it better to spend more time on this PE and go beyond the form in the video, or progress when form is as shown and then spend more time in the later PE's which definitely require a straight body?
Nash, sorry for hijacking your thread. I have a similar issue to you, whereby when I protract as much as I can, even unloaded, my scaps protrude a little and it looks like I'm not protracting fully. IMO you have demonstrated mastery. Nice work!
IMO after look over your last video, seems like you don't have the same protraction all the time, and it's normal because is your last set. Compared 0:11 to 1:00 and you'll see the difference.
You complete the mastery sets, of course you do, but you still roaring and screaming And I now this for sure, you've to complete mastery with no "visual" effort, and I suppose hearing to
Jokes asides, you're there Nash. As is said for these forums: build it, consolidate it, repeat it 
KibboKift said:This is something I have been wondering about. In the course material for both PE2 and PE3, the athlete is noticeably piked. Is this an intentional regression from the straight body required in later PE's? Nash is demonstrating the exercise with a straight body, which I believe to be harder. So is it better to spend more time on this PE and go beyond the form in the video, or progress when form is as shown and then spend more time in the later PE's which definitely require a straight body?
Nash, sorry for hijacking your thread. I have a similar issue to you, whereby when I protract as much as I can, even unloaded, my scaps protrude a little and it looks like I'm not protracting fully. IMO you have demonstrated mastery. Nice work!
No, the athlete is not piked in PE2 and PE3.
"Piked" means that the hips are flexed and many times the back is arched (Anterior Pelvic Tilt); this is the opposite of what you want and what is being demonstrated in those two exercises.
What you are mistaking for being "piked" is a strongly "hollowed" body (which consists of the hips being extended, Posterior Pelvic Tilt, and the lumbar spine being flexed).
Nash is not hollowing as strongly as the demo video which is (I think anyhow) causing his degree of protraction to appear less than it should be.
Piking means that the hips are flexed; it does not mean that the back is arched. However, I'll avoid using that word if it makes things clearer. I understand that the athlete in the videos is displaying a strongly hollowed body position. It is similar (except for the arms) to a hollow hold, only inverted. In a hollow hold though, the hips are not extended fully, otherwise the legs would be in contact with the ground.
If the athlete in PE2 and PE3 were fully extending his hips, his lower back would be parallel with his legs. It isn't, but in PE5 it is. He is flexing at the hips, therefore requiring less PPT.
It's an open question which of the two is the more difficult. As I said before, I think it is more difficult to fully extend the hips. Every form check thread I have seen up to now, including my own has called for fully extended hips, which contradicts the video, so which is right?
I think your shape is fine, but I'm not 100% sure about your shoulders there. You would want to ensure you warm up with slow scapular shrugs and think *spreading* at the bottom and pinching at the top-- not just forward and back. If you can't feel your serratus/lats (kind overlap there in the whole depression/protraction thing), pecs and traps all at the same time adjust until you can. PPT and tighter hollow will be thoroughly addressed in pl leans-- just 'a hollow' is fine here as far as I understand it. You'll dial that in over the course of F1. Don't be afraid to be actively working the whole minute-- it is not meant to be a 'rest' position 
IMO you look fine for planks but in moving forward I'd keep a careful eye on that shoulder action, and I would want that protraction fixed as I described for pl leans but of course we can dial that in with more specific advice as you get there.
/2c
KibboKift said:Piking means that the hips are flexed; it does not mean that the back is arched. However, I'll avoid using that word if it makes things clearer. I understand that the athlete in the videos is displaying a strongly hollowed body position. It is similar (except for the arms) to a hollow hold, only inverted. In a hollow hold though, the hips are not extended fully, otherwise the legs would be in contact with the ground.
If the athlete in PE2 and PE3 were fully extending his hips, his lower back would be parallel with his legs. It isn't, but in PE5 it is. He is flexing at the hips, therefore requiring less PPT.
It's an open question which of the two is the more difficult. As I said before, I think it is more difficult to fully extend the hips. Every form check thread I have seen up to now, including my own has called for fully extended hips, which contradicts the video, so which is right?
No, the hips are fully extended in both the full HBH and HBP PE2 and PE3, there is simply more spinal flexion occurring which makes it appear that there is an angle happening in the body. If you look closely though you'll see that the angle is being created at the middle and upper spine, not the hip joint (hence PPT/hollowing is being maximally maintained).
Your experience may vary, but holding a plank with a very strong hollow body is more difficult than holding it with a straight body IME. The reason why the hollow starts to become less pronounced in later progressions is because the leverage starts to decrease, thus adding additional difficulty to maintaining an exaggerated hollow position.
Ok Keegan, I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree here
When I look closely at the picture in post 8, or at the video, what I see is a flat lower back, which is nowhere near parallel to the legs.
If you start by lying on your back with your legs and lower back both in contact with the floor (assuming your hip flexors are loose enough to do so), how else can you assume the HBH position other than by flexing at the hips to raise your feet off the floor? The lower spine must remain straight and horizontal since it is always in contact with the floor.
Ok, we'l agree to disagree. :-)
Just to clarify, hip extension has to do with the angle between the pelvis and the femur, the lumbar and thoracic spine can flex in addition to the hips extending, which creates the illusion of the hips being piked.
The hips should be extended in HBH (other than the bent version), if they are not you aren't doing them correctly. The lift needs to come from hollowing the back further, not flexing the hips. The same phenomenon creates the angle in the plank variations.
I'm now starting to doubt my mastery of this for one reason: Single Arm Planks are not burning around my scapula like the Planks were. It's definitely difficult and heavy, but no deep burn.
This is leading me to believe that maybe the target muscles aren't strong enough to get activated correctly in the Single Arm Plank. Is this a possible scenario?
I also started a separate thread about this: https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/15025-is-the-single-arm-plank-supposed-to-be-less-torturous-than-the-plank/
It's hard to tell from the angle of the video: is your shoulder directly over your hand? I find I get some accidental upward rotation if I'm not careful, rather than straight protraction with my chest square to the floor and my arm straight out in front of it.
Try leaning forward slightly.
Your forms looks nice...I don't see anything wrong. I just thought a little less squirming and you're golden.
Bipocni said:It's hard to tell from the angle of the video: is your shoulder directly over your hand? I find I get some accidental upward rotation if I'm not careful, rather than straight protraction with my chest square to the floor and my arm straight out in front of it.
Try leaning forward slightly.
Biren P. said:Your forms looks nice...I don't see anything wrong. I just thought a little less squirming and you're golden.
Thank you for the input guys. This one is really tough. I'll post another video when the squirming and instability is completely gone.
Nash said:This one is really tough.
I get the feeling that once I'm really comfortable with one arm planks, planche leans will be a piece of cake.
Bipocni said:I get the feeling that once I'm really comfortable with one arm planks, planche leans will be a piece of cake.
The scapula depression in the lean adds a difficult element to the mix...