Using F1 every day, but only 1 set per movement.

I've been playing around with a different set up.  I've following F1 to a tee for the first cycle, for cycle two, I wanted to try something different to accommodate for some other training (I'm a Crossfit coach and can't help but get caught up in "The Open", so, generally I'm doing CF conditioning 5x per week). 

 

The best fit for me seems to be starting with a warm-up, then going through every movement in F1 with it's complementary mobility work.  Therefore, I'm getting 5 total sets per movement through the course of the week with one set per day.   

 

To increase the workload, I'm choosing to simply increase the reps in this set, or the time in this set in the same manner as the typical cycle.  

 

I've been doing this for 4 weeks now, and will continue through this entire cycle.  I'm interested to test at the end to see if I was able to make the same amount of progress.  

 

Usually, this F1 work is right after my warm up.  Then, I follow F1 with Olympic Lifting, followed by a very short conditioning circuit (whatever the gym has programmed for the daily "wod").  

 

in terms of recovery, I feel fine--getting stronger and not sore at all.  I just wanted to share to see if anyone else had played around with this template and if so how it went.  

 

I plan to got back to the traditional cycle template as written once The Open is done since I have no chance of going to Regionals.  

 

Just wanted to share.  Thoughts?  

 

One major problem I see is that by cutting down the sets you're getting way less mobility work. And what most of us really need at the start is as much mobility as possible.

 

Also, the training isn't just about using muscles and recovering, it's also about CNS adaption and muscle memory. Somebody with more knowledge my want to chime in here, but I can't help but wonder if your set up will mess that up as well.

 

If Crossfit is your focus, then go for it, but your Foundation work will undoubtedly suffer. If you want to master Foundation, then do Foundation.

Yes, thank you for the advice.  I agree that I'm mashing a bunch of conflicting pieces together--at least temporarily.  I totally see the point about less mobility overall...  That's actually what I need to work on most!  

 

Although I don't want to focus on CF, at least for the next 5 weeks or so it will be a necessary thing because of my position as a coach. 

 

Once the CF Open is over, I will go back on F1 as written and hopefully be able to jump up a notch in the sequence.  Ultimately, that is my goal:  while shifting focus to CF for  a few weeks, I'm hoping to allow F1 to suffer the least by hitting the movements 5 days per week even though the total overall volume of work will be less. 

 

Trust me, I want to dedicate my time to F1 solely, especially after listening to Coach's podcast yesterday with Robb Wolf.  

 

Thanks!

If it's a temporary thing, I say go for it. You might want to do one set of mobility work before and after the working set of each exercise so you still do reasonable amounts of mobility work. You can also do mobility work whenever you have the time. It's pretty much the most important thing in F1 anyway.

You're neglecting two major elements of Foundation: building mobility, and building work capacity. Part of the reason why Foundation requires 5 high volume sets with no rest in between is to build up your body's ability to maintain high power output for prolonged periods of time. You'll need this for the more advanced work. You're also only getting about half of the mobility work you'd normally get, and without the benefit of doing multiple sets in a row. 

 

As a 12-week experiment, it'll probably be fine; you might not progress as much as you could have by following the series as written, but you'll still make some gains. I definitely don't think it would be a good long term choice. 

 

 

thecolin said:

If Crossfit is your focus, then go for it, but your Foundation work will undoubtedly suffer. If you want to master Foundation, then do Foundation.

Eh, i'd go so far as to say that if Crossfit is your focus, then still do Foundation 

Joshua Slocum said:

 

 

Eh, i'd go so far as to say that if Crossfit is your focus, then still do Foundation 

LOL, love it!  That is exactly what my gut is telling me to do. 

Another CFitter here. I was doing 3 F1 movements (as RXd) per day following by 1 O. Lift, 1 slow lift and metcon. If you can train x2 per day and split your F1 and CF sessions it would be ideal. For the open you do not need to max out your lifts, just maintain. 5-3-1 for slow lifts and 80-85% for O. lifts should be enough. I personally prefer repeat each open WOD twice to improve score. I would not do any other metcons for the whole duration of the open. But would do high Rep O. Lifts and some BW movements on the minute for 10-15 min few times a week a la Rich Fronting. On the minute protocol is perfect for conditioning and polishing your technique at the same time. That should give you good conditioning. Rest as needed, listened to your body.

Cool, thanks, I like to hear that it's at least possible and that I won't blow up.  How are you finding F1 translates to your CF?   I really like the on-the-minute stuff in favor of longer metcons... Also, when I've been feeling a bit fried, I just do a tabata set up with jumprope, kb swings, and/or rowing.  

ADHD much?  Are you trying to excel at both CF and F-series at once? There is such a thing as choice.

I think F1 complements CF nicely. We use a lot of momentum in CF movements and gymnastics almost static effort is very different and really helps with body control. And mobility part is the best rehab you can get, knees and shoulders take so much beating in CF.

Ravn, how about choosing both, if you do not do CF you will not understand. Do not judge seriously though ever heard of fitness ss? That's when you are strong and we'll conditioned. I do not think that F1 is at the level of intensity that you can't do anything else and need to specialize. good luck in the open!

Yeah, I've heard of fitness, and I don't really know what to think about it. I mean, why do we need to constantly be in a state of extreme cardiovascular fitness? So we can be ever ready to meet the imaginary bully in the school yard at four o'clock? Let's not kid ourselves and think that we're elite and need to be ready to compete in the fantasy olympics, or something like that.

I know that personal tastes differ, and personally, I just prefer to have a relatively solid cardio baseline, but nothing special. Why? Well, cardiovascular fitness and strength endurance is quite easy to improve in just six to twelve weeks, if the need arises. If I know I'm going ice climbing or whatever, I can train for that specific event within quite a short time span. At the other end of the spectrum we have things like balance, flexibility and straight/bent arm strength. To get proficient at these elements you need four-six years, according to Coach.

According to my personal logic (YMMV), it's better to get cracking at these things as soon as possible and devote the greatest possible amount of resources to this pursuit, rather than spreading the effort thin across a palette of disciplines, and end up not really being good at anything.

You guys are of course free to do whatever you want, and it's quite possible you've got better recovery, and more time and ressources to devote to the pursuit than I do, in which case all is good. I'd just hate to see yet another case of elbow tendonitis or busted shoulder from too much work too soon. Coach has been putting in quite an effort to get this message across lately (not least in the podcast mentioned above), but it's far from broadly recognised, I'm afraid.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. I personally like to keep my conditioning high as it makes my everyday life so much easier. I think Glassman once said that regular person should workout like navy seal. A bit exaggerated but the point is to stay always ready and mostly not for the bully, canoe trip, hiking, shavel the snow, etc. It is different quality of life when you are always full of energy. Just increased strength does not feel that way. And if you compete in CF there are other things to consider which go beyond just fitness: lactic threshold, mental toughness, basic endurance, skills, etc. I have been doing CF for a looooong time by now and learned how to balance activities. This programming might sound like high volume but in reality it is not. It takes 90 min 4-5 times a week. Once GB workouts are more demanding I will have to rewise it.

I'm in a similar place in that --at the moment-- I seem to be able to handle the volume/intensity, but my ultimate goals are more in line with gymnastics and long term skill/strength progression. A missing element is the fact that Cf is a heck of a lot of fun and exposure to a great group of people. Moreover, by dipping into both worlds, I think I'm a much better coach with all the info that I learn here. There's something too about the addictive nature of Cf that I can't seem to break away from. ..

But, yes, it's exactly my ADHD that embraces the constantly varied approach of CF. Can't fight my nature.

bombadil said:

I'm in a similar place in that --at the moment-- I seem to be able to handle the volume/intensity, but my ultimate goals are more in line with gymnastics and long term skill/strength progression. A missing element is the fact that Cf is a heck of a lot of fun and exposure to a great group of people. Moreover, by dipping into both worlds, I think I'm a much better coach with all the info that I learn here. There's something too about the addictive nature of Cf that I can't seem to break away from. ..

But, yes, it's exactly my ADHD that embraces the constantly varied approach of CF. Can't fight my nature.

Its fun to go crazy and pump yourself up in crossfit, but thats short term.  Think about what its like to roll in and do a ring circuit for conditioning because you have mastered all those elements.  Long term smart training yields better health and results.  You just have to be disciplined to keep your eye on the ball.  I think the best of both worlds would be to train GB and then compete Crossfit or some other sport as fun on the weekends.  This was the original idea of crossfit before the exercise became a sport.  I personally do cirque stuff, climb, and do gymnastic skills as my outlet for fun.  GB has enabled all these areas.

Daniel Burnham said:

I think the best of both worlds would be to train GB and then compete Crossfit or some other sport as fun on the weekends.

Yes, this is quite a bit of fun

Last weekend I had a 2 day CF competition and on the Thursday before I did one set of all Foundation. I then had 3 days of no workouts and did four F1 exercises Thursday. I had not lost any strength in that short time, but I did notice the last set of straddle rocks was harder than last week. This could just have been because of the competition though.

For the Crossfit open I am going to keep up the Foundation as normal and then only do the Open workout and one easy metcon later in the week. I don't think I will loose any cardio fitness during the 5 weeks.

When I started F1 and H1 I was doing 5 Crossfit workouts a week following Outlaw programming. I then moved on to Competitors WOD 5 days a week. Initially the volume was ok as the early F1 exercises were challenging but did not affect my recovery. As I progressed with F1 and H1 I dropped I only did the Competitors WOD metcons with some Olympic lifts. After Christmas I dropped CF to three times a week and have better for it. I am now dropping CF to twice a week so I can progress quicker with F1 and H1. I am only on level 3-6 with F1, so I expect as I improve CF will become relatively easier.

One thing I noticed was that after having three days of no metcons my mobility was so much better I couldn't believe it. CF is hard on the body and no doubt will slow your GST, but it is hard to reduce it once you get hooked. The longer I do Foundation the more it has become my primary focus rather than CF.

Mark Collins said:

One thing I noticed was that after having three days of no metcons my mobility was so much better I couldn't believe it. CF is hard on the body and no doubt will slow your GST, but it is hard to reduce it once you get hooked. The longer I do Foundation the more it has become my primary focus rather than CF.

Are you saying that by training more CF your mobility gets worst?

maolu said:

Are you saying that by training more CF your mobility gets worst?

 

I'd say it's quite likely. There's a reason that there are mobility elements after every single set. Mobility needs to be built up along side strength at the same time, or one will dominate the other. It it wasn't required, we'd all just be doing the strength work followed by some stretching and some yoga on the weekend like most people. But for what we're trying to achieve, the mobility needs to be as focused as the strength work. That way, the flexibility ceases to be simply some casual work on the side so you can get stronger, but becomes the fundamental mechanics of how your body operates.

I know mobility is a requisite, but let's just not think that just because GB focuses on paired strength-mobility, then all other disciplines automatically will lack them.

Being someone that never tried CF in his whole life I just had no idea about the degree of mobility they workout there.

I guess it makes me want to avoid it even more...

Mark Collins said:

One thing I noticed was that after having three days of no metcons my mobility was so much better I couldn't believe it. 

I get this with running; My hamstring mobility gets worse when I do moderate 4 km terrain runs during the summer.

maolu said:

Are you saying that by training more CF your mobility gets worst?

CF highlighted my poor mobility when I couldn't do simple exercises like an overhead squat. So in many ways CF can be good for people with poor mobility as it highlights their problem areas. The thing that killed my mobility was a Weider Bench Press I got for Christmas when I was 13 and following bodybuilding style routines for 20 years. Combined with no stretching I became so tight I was crushing my body.

CF is so intense and the soreness you get from the workouts does cause shortening of the soft tissue. There is an emphasis on mobility, but nothing like F1 and H1. As there is little idea on how to progress exercises many people do high level movements with poor mobility, which results in strain on the joints and soft tissue. The body responds by getting tighter as a protective mechanism.

Are you saying that by training more CF your mobility gets worst?

That is interesting point, I have seen reduced mobility only after multiple heavy Back and Front squat sets. Not O. lifts or other more dynamic exercises. Let's say if I do 5-3-1 with one heavy set of 375 lb x 5 reps (160 kg) or even higher weight with lower reps I will not see any problem next day. If I am not too lazy to roll my quads. But if I did anything like what Outlaw squatting from hell programmed recently when I had to do multiple sets of F/B Squat resulting in 80 total reps with much lighter load around 235 lb (100kg) I will see horrible reduction in mobility for next few days. After something like Karen WOD (150 wallballs) that in other words can be described like knee joint Overuse and typically causes quads DOMs for a long time so mobility will be gone for few days at least. So I guess what I am trying to say is it might really depend on programming. All KB ballistics, and many BW movements might even promote mobility.

I see awful mobility at my local CF box, but I would imagine this is better than your average gym. At least they do some token stretching and mobilisations, and if they understood the before/after difference a little more I've no doubt they'd be religious about it. Generally th CF'ers I've met  have a pretty good attitude, if a little tunnel-visioned.

maolu said:

I know mobility is a requisite, but let's just not think that just because GB focuses on paired strength-mobility, then all other disciplines automatically will lack them.

Being someone that never tried CF in his whole life I just had no idea about the degree of mobility they workout there.

I guess it makes me want to avoid it even more...

 

But were not talking about general mobility for generic purposes or other sports. We're talking about the mobility required to do very specific gymnastics skills. If you don't care to do rings and planche, then train however the heck you like. If you want gymnastics skills, then focus on the work you need to do without distracting yourself, or thinking that you can be successful at everything.

But were not talking about general mobility for generic purposes or other sports. We're talking about the mobility required to do very specific gymnastics skills. If you don't care to do rings and planche, then train however the heck you like. If you want gymnastics skills, then focus on the work you need to do without distracting yourself, or thinking that you can be successful at everything.

 

I think you are right. And I am sure compromizes will be needed as we progress. I would like to see what GB team opinion is on this subject. Is it advisable to just put any weightlifting acitivities aside until fundamentals are conquered and there is no issue with at least basic mobility? I think coach once mentioned that Chineese gymnasts persue x2 BW squat. How do they do that? That is pretty respsectable squat  and would requre quite a bit of dedicated weightlifting. So since they are able to implement it and believe that it is beneficial for their gymnastics and I do not think they have any issues with mobility. There should be a way to implement that kind of activities.

O.lifts by their nature should not cause any mobility issues. Metcons is a very different topic. Assuming that we do not do anything stupid to cause some excessive lactic acid build or to cause overuse in any particular area I think it is possible to implement them as well. I do not think conditioning is not included in gymnastics because it interferes with gymnastics specific training, but more likely because it is just not needed. Look at any sport related to wrestling, typically these guys would have very high level of conditioning, strength and mobility at the same time. If you look at what tools they are using to achieve that it is very similar to CF: high reps Kettlebell, O.lifts, sprints, etc. Actually it was implemented in CF because it worked so well for conditinioning.

It would be nice to keep this dialog alive and see what is working for different people and what is not.