What I learned at the London seminar

Murray Truelove said:

OK, do daily mobility work, how long should this take? Would this consist of doing all the IMs?

One hard stretch session a week (should this be using PNF/CR technique?). what should this include?

Suppose what I'm asking is "what do I really need to do to become flexible". I really need it spelt out.

Daily work: going through a bunch of iM's is a good way of doing this. Aim to reach the limit of your ROM, but don't try to push further than that. This shouldn't take more than 5-15 minutes, assuming you're already warmed up - the goal is just to spend a bit of time in each stretch near the edge of your ROM to keep yourself limber. Make sure you hit all the movements where you're trying to improve ROM.

Hard stretching: this is where you want to use PNF/CR techniques. You want to choose a set of strong stretches that target your weaknesses. E.g. if you're trying to improve your pike, you're going to want hamstring and calf stretches. Kit has a multitude of stretches on his youtube channel, and a bunch more in his books as well. I'd use that as a starting point for choosing your stretches. Your heavy stretching sessions are where you want to try to explore new ROM. If you're doing it right, it'll leave the muscles you were stretching sore for a few days. This is why it's recommended that you only do this once, maybe twice a week. 

Do to some recent suggestions in another post, I recently picked up doing yoga. To me it looked easy and not very beneficial, but over the course of a week, I have already seen better rom, posture, and joint mechanics when going through my iM's and flexibility routine. For the first time I was able to touch elbows to floor in about 145degree straddle stretch... Also the first time to get that far. The biggest changes I've seen came with my arch body holds and rocks during warmup and shoulder bridges.

Joshua Slocum said:

Daily work: going through a bunch of iM's is a good way of doing this. Aim to reach the limit of your ROM, but don't try to push further than that. This shouldn't take more than 5-15 minutes, assuming you're already warmed up - the goal is just to spend a bit of time in each stretch near the edge of your ROM to keep yourself limber. Make sure you hit all the movements where you're trying to improve ROM.

Hard stretching: this is where you want to use PNF/CR techniques. You want to choose a set of strong stretches that target your weaknesses. E.g. if you're trying to improve your pike, you're going to want hamstring and calf stretches. Kit has a multitude of stretches on his youtube channel, and a bunch more in his books as well. I'd use that as a starting point for choosing your stretches. Your heavy stretching sessions are where you want to try to explore new ROM. If you're doing it right, it'll leave the muscles you were stretching sore for a few days. This is why it's recommended that you only do this once, maybe twice a week.

Ok, so far so good, thanks. Do we do the hard stretching on a rest day, or in conjunction with a workout? Let's get as close to some real programming as possible. Keep the ball rolling!

Ravn said:

Ok, so far so god, thanks. Do we do the hard stretching on a rest day, or in conjunction with a workout? Let's get as close to some real programming as possible. Keep the ball rolling!

Choose your own adventure. I personally like to do it on a rest day but there's no reason you couldn't do it after a workout.

Ravn said:

Ok, so far so good, thanks. Do we do the hard stretching on a rest day, or in conjunction with a workout? Let's get as close to some real programming as possible. Keep the ball rolling!

I really really like hard leg stretching after SLS work. It just feels so good  . I don't know where to put the rest of the stretches in just yet, but I'm adding them as I go and need them.

How long should a hard stretch session last? How long should I hold? Am I supposed to use weight like Jefferson curls? Do I do sets and reps like I do with GST; 5x60s toe touch with an IM between sets?

Sorry for asking for such details but my flexibility has always been a problem. I can only reach past my knees when trying to touch my toes, when standing in a straddle it's barely 1m in width. I did karate for years and my flexibility hardly improved at all. I think this stems from poor programming so would love to be on the right track.

Murray Truelove said:

Suppose what I'm asking is "what do I really need to do to become flexible". I really need it spelt out.

I would recommend that you look at Kit's material for how to approach increasing your flexibility - he spells it out. Also stretches are done by breaths not seconds.

Murray Truelove said:

How long should a hard stretch session last? How long should I hold? Am I supposed to use weight like Jefferson curls? Do I do sets and reps like I do with GST; 5x60s toe touch with an IM between sets?

Sorry for asking for such details but my flexibility has always been a problem. I can only reach past my knees when trying to touch my toes, when standing in a straddle it's barely 1m in width. I did karate for years and my flexibility hardly improved at all. I think this stems from poor programming so would love to be on the right track.

You need more advice than I can give in a single post. Kit Laughlin's material is the best I've found so far - I'd recommend getting a copy of his book.

Here's some advice help you start you off in the meantime:

- You only need to do each CR/PNF stretch once per session - perhaps twice if you have one side that is tighter than the other. 

- Each stretch is going to take on the order of 1-3 minutes per side, depending on how large the muscle you're stretching is and how many CR cycles it takes for you to break into new ROM.

- Like with strength training, you want to make sure to stretch opposing patterns of movement to maintain balance. So e.g. hip flexion stretches should always be balanced out with hip extension. 

- A stretching partner would be highly recommended. A lot of Kit's stretches are partner stretches, and having an external pair of eyes to keep your form honest is quite helpful. 

This is Kit Laughlin's youtube channel. There are a good number of stretches on there to play around with.

Coach Sommer said:

- The iMs are mobility work and are not considered a hard stretch; although beginners do indeed tend to confuse the two. The London GBS students just learned the difference.

- For beginners one hard stretch day per week is the perfect place to start. One week because if you are not sore for most of the upcoming week, you did not stretch hard enough.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Wow I definitely have not been stretching hard enough AT ALL. This may sound odd but I am now hoping to be in pain all next week after my stretching session tomorrow. At least I'll know that I've been doing it right

Excellent thread.

SoyeBoy said:

Wow I definitely have not been stretching hard enough AT ALL. This may sound odd but I am now hoping to be in pain all next week after my stretching session tomorrow. At least I'll know that I've been doing it right

Excellent thread.

Ease into it. You don't want to tear something. Gradually increase the intensity to give yourself time to learn good pain vs bad pain.

Ravn said:

Ok, so far so good, thanks. Do we do the hard stretching on a rest day, or in conjunction with a workout? Let's get as close to some real programming as possible. Keep the ball rolling!

I think Kit recommends doing your main stretching when you're are as warmed up as possible, after your main strength session. He also recommends clothing like leggings that help keep your muscles as warm as possible.

As for the "push harder" part. I can see how I could push harder on some elements by not giving in to discomfort, like in the hollow holds for instance but can anyone give tips on how to push harder on elements like rows and push-ups without getting in to grinding reps?

For push-ups, try to exaggerate your breathing. I've started doing this with some success. Just follow a normal rhythm of breathing in going down, and out pushing up. But really expand your lungs and breath out hard as you push up.

Rows still kill me though. My forearms give out first, and it's like flipping a switch that I just can't push past. I'm trying to be really strict and touch the rings to my shoulders on each rep. But after a certain point, my arms and back are still fine to keep going but I can't keep the same ROM once my forearms wear out.

Christian said:

Hi all. Thought I'd start a thread about what I learned at the London seminar. I'll just pop down some quick things now and try to update it a bit more later on (at work). I'll stay away from or post in the proper forums things are specific to certain courses or exercises.

 

( My thoughts and impressions of the seminar, not the gospel truth)

 

- You need to get to a seminar to get the most out of your Foundation courses.

- You can and should push alot harder than you do!

- We mentally shut down long before physically

- ALL of Foundation (1-4) should only take 1 - 2 years to complete

- My definition of hard stretching is what Coach considered daily limbering practice

- Having "only" iM as rest is a luxury

- F1 is the hardest of the Foundations because we are so lacking in strength, mobility and endurance.

- Mobility and flexibility is crucial to later success.

- There really is no point thinking you can start ring training before you at LEAST finish F2 even then it's better to focus on Foundation (not a rule, my thoughts only)

- A generall warmup for ring strength is already harder than any of our workouts (even if you are on F3/F4).

- A generall cooldown after ring strength is already harder than any of our workouts....

- NEVER sacrifice form!

 

You really need to stretch and stretch HARD. Bridge and pike is the most important to begin with.

If you can't sit comfortably in a wide (at least 90 degree) straddle with proper APT and elbows on floor you are a zombie.

 

Being at this seminar really boosted my motivation and opened my eyes to what is needed to progress and just how far we can and will go if we stick with it.

 

Anyone else who was at the seminar, feel free to agree/disagree with anything I said here.

 

Now, let's get this show on the road!

i'm kind of confused about how you mentioned that foundation 1-4 is only supposed to take 1-2 years.

i thought foundation 1, by itself,  was supposed to take up to almost 2 years?

No, according to Coach, 1-2 years for a reasonably fit ( and I assume not a complete Zombie) is a realistic timeframe.

You are not supposed to need a 12 week cycle on all elements. Test, master and move on.

I think one year is very optimistic but two years seems plausible. Looking at my own progress, it doesn't seem likely but I wonder how quickly I'll progress once I'm past some of the most famous bottlenecks (SL/PE1, MN/PE2, I'm so mainstream  ).

I have to say I d messed around with a lot of the exercises and I think 2 years is definitely possible as there will be alot of exercises when mastered the next progressions shouldn't be much harder and some later progressions are even easier. Mobility will be the main hindrance I imagine.

1 year seems unrealistic though unless you already have some serious training experience.

ausswe said:

I have to say I d messed around with a lot of the exercises and I think 2 years is definitely possible as there will be alot of exercises when mastered the next progressions shouldn't be much harder and some later progressions are even easier. Mobility will be the main hindrance I imagine.

1 year seems unrealistic though unless you already have some serious training experience.

Mobility and endurance is the stuff that's holding me back the most. I feel like once F1 is done things will go a lot smoother. At least I hope.

I would love to go to a seminar but I don't have the money.

gohei_ said:

Mobility and endurance is the stuff that's holding me back the most. I feel like once F1 is done things will go a lot smoother. At least I hope.

Definitely. Speaking personally, the further I get, absolutely the more momentum I have.

Developing good mobility lets take the brakes off all that strength you worked so hard to build and really apply it. Do yourself a favour and get on it

Did coach ever say exactly how much rest between exercises that he allows his athletes?

Jon Douglas said:

 

Developing good mobility lets take the brakes off all that strength you worked so hard to build and really apply it. Do yourself a favour and get on it

Mobility really is the deciding factor in how quickly you'll advance I think. With poor mobility, you not only have to work against gravity, but also the tension in your own body!

Now if only I could improve my straddle compression. 

Mobility has been limiting is some areas but honestly the part holding me back has been the endurance required for f1. I've always been good and short burst or strength but not endurance. After fiddling with the low repetitions of f2 I've found that I'm going to fly through to f3 pretty quickly aside from one or 2 sticking points. This is helpful because although it feels slow now I know things will start rolling faster once I get I to f2 and beyond.

Hmms said:

Did coach ever say exactly how much rest between exercises that he allows his athletes?

He's said a few times that the time needed to perform the integrated mobility is a luxury, so no more than that. Perform each mobility exercise at the same tempo as the athletes in the video then straight onto the next set.

ausswe said:

Mobility has been limiting is some areas but honestly the part holding me back has been the endurance required for f1.

 

Endurance is the next problem after mobility I think. For most of the people struggling with ABH, they're fighting gravity, plus the tension in their hip flexors to try and get a proper arch. For my F2 SLS work I expend way more energy on my left leg than my right, simply because of mobility issues on one side. Building the required endurance becomes exponentially more difficult with poor mobility.

Lack of mobility isn't just about better ROM. When your joints move badly, everything becomes more difficult, including endurance.