MN/PE1 - how far am I?

Hey guys,

I didn't think I was anywhere close but after I took this video I reckon maybe I'm closer than I originally thought. I feel like I hit a block at the end of the range, like there's no more room, my upper thighs are hitting my abs. But if there's room to grow I don't want to short myself. Please let me know what you think! I appreciate all the help from you guys, this forum is one of the reasons why GB is so great.

looks similar to mine and i have to say that for me at least i tested if i could go further by pulling my legs to my body in the same position and found that my thighs coulød in fact touch my chest i just wasnt strong enough to do it without the assistance of my arms.  in saying that i think yours looks pretty good and i am not sure if you really need to go further or not hopefully someone else will chime in here.

Looks like there may be a small space to go a bit further but not sure if this means to wait until you can to move on.  I'm interested in seeing an informed reply here as well.  I'm currently playing with MN/PE2 for fun but not sure if my MN/PE1 is indeed perfected yet.  

Thanks for the replies so far guys, hopefully a few others chime in and I can figure out if I should move on or continue trying to improve my ROM

can you do at least one rep where your chest touches your legs? if so id speed another cycle trying to improve it combined with some stretching to help loosen any tightness holding your back. think of lifting your chest higher i notice you kind of round yourself into it try and make it as straight as you can that might help.  personally if i had 5x15 of that without any trouble besides that extra bit of rom i would move on and keep a set in my warm up to try and improve on.

ausswe said:

can you do at least one rep where your chest touches your legs? if so id speed another cycle trying to improve it combined with some stretching to help loosen any tightness holding your back. think of lifting your chest higher i notice you kind of round yourself into it try and make it as straight as you can that might help. personally if i had 5x15 of that without any trouble besides that extra bit of rom i would move on and keep a set in my warm up to try and improve on.

Not saying that your advice is necessarily wrong, but personally I found that it was physically impossible to get my chest to my knees (with or without the assistance of gravity/my arms) while trying to keep my back "straight". I have to really focus on rounding my back, and if you look at the demo video the athlete is also clearly rounding his back.

Different lever lengths will probably change what is or is not appropriate though. So keeping your back straight might be totally correct for you.

My back rounds as well but I found when I strive to lift my chest higher I can get more compression so that my chest and legs can touch each other also found if I keep my calves more parallel to the ground it was easier, not sure if that will help you though. It is definitely possible for you to get your chest to leg ( I don't say knees because I have long legs and my chest actually touches my thighs) maybe it is some tightness somewhere holding you back either way I wouldn't worry about it to much about it the athlete doesn't seem to quite touch either but I think maximizing your compression now is a good idea.

Personally though if you think that's really your limit and you have this exercise mastered then move on and keep working on more pike flexibility as you go.

Luckily I have another microcycle to work on improving my compression because I dropped back to week 5 to work on my form and keeping my knees together. So based on these replies if I hit mastery at this ROM I will move on, but hopefully I can get a little closer to my chest by the end of the 12 weeks. Thanks again!

Think it looks fine, i mean 5x15 sets are high volume, means if you master this number you can go on without problems, because you proofed, you didn't rushed through it. For me it helped to make them faster at the beginning, so my upper legs touched my chest with some momentum, after time i didn't needed this momentum anymore

Are the knees supposed to be together in the upright position also?

 

I was gonna go to PE2 next week but I slightly open my knees on top and they touch my solar bones. Is this ok. Can not see in the video what it looks like.

RiQC said:

Are the knees supposed to be together in the upright position also?

 

I was gonna go to PE2 next week but I slightly open my knees on top and they touch my solar bones. Is this ok. Can not see in the video what it looks like.

There was the same question about knees in ABh/r and FLholds, answer was, that we should try to get knees together, but the main focus should be on feets together, so don't wait to go on next level when everything else is fine

I vaguely remember seek a post that was quite recent which came to the conclusion knees should stay together in this one. I'll try find it later and link it here if I do

ausswe said:

I vaguely remember seek a post that was quite recent which came to the conclusion knees should stay together in this one. I'll try find it later and link it here if I do

Thans. If you can find it its awesome. Its not even mobility thing for me. If I dont open knees a litle when completely up my stomach is in the way and my tighs are pressed to it hard

Do you mean dynamo's topic: Manna and Front Lever Adductor Contribution?

 

Points from topic:

• Keep your knees together throughout the tuck-up movement. This best prepares you for the manna, where your legs are held together. Otherwise, you will have a 'straddle manna', not a proper manna.
• It is most appropriate to master the knees together in PE1, because mastering full adduction will only get more difficult with the legs straight (PE2 and onward...)
• The knees may have a tendency to separate at the top of the movement. But if you focus on keeping them together, the adductors that keep the knees together will strengthen and catch up. It will get easier.
• If you struggle to "squeeze" your knees together, focus on rotating your quads inward - from the hips - until the knees are in solid contact. This takes the resistance out of it.

Thanks for that wheezes I believe that was the topic . Did a quick search but missed it

Great contributions guys. Question: today I tried to squeeze my knees to my chest using my arms and found that I could touch my chest. Based on this, should I still move on at my current amount of compression, once I've mastered the element?

kimura said:

should I still move on at my current amount of compression?

 

The assisted chest-touch shows you that full, perfect ROM is achievable when the strength is there. I would stick around on the early weeks of PE1 until you get that full compression. By 'full' compression, I mean a triangle where knees are pressed together, and both knees are pressed against the chest. At this point, the only force stopping further ROM is bone pushing on bone.     Actually I take that back, the video doesn't compress that much...

 

For a short while, you may have to forget about reps altogether. If you don't yet have the hip flexor/adductor strength to nail this ROM for 3 reps, you're not going to nail it with 6 reps, and you're not going to nail PE3. Sooo many F1 students have found the PE1 -> PE2 transition impossible, so hopefully this patience will help your eventual transition.

 

I'm in a similar situation myself. I worked my way up to week 11 (5x15r) only to video myself and see limited ROM, knees apart and back as arched as possible. Poor form. So I have jumped down to 4x6r with full knee-to-knee-to-chest range. Since dropping the reps and upping the form, progress has been amazing. Doing a few good form tuck-ups has achieved more than grinding through 75 half-ROM tuck-ups 3x week for three months. Every session, the knee-to-chest squeeze is taking less effort and I'm getting closer to upping the reps again.

 

I have been training tuck-ups 3x week for a little over 10 months now, with windmills as iM in the first 9 months, and Jefferson curls in the past few weeks (since I've well and truly mastered PE1>iM). It's been a long road, but this exercise has single-handedly transformed my core, added an incredible 17 inches to my touch-my-toes reach, and taken my straight-leg raise from 40deg to a perfect 90deg.

 

The more it sucks, the more it strengthens you.

 

If it helps, just remember you're training for a freaking MANNA.

wheezer. Those are really good points.

 

But IMO one should go to PE2 (or progress in every exercise) when the ROM is same as in the video. You are probably right that one should still do that compression exercise in the warmups. But definitely start to work on PE2 also.

 

Im all about doing perfect form in everything, but I don't understand why many of you are not progressing when you can. I don't think that Coach wants us to do PE1s for eternity. Ofcourse everything can be done better and better and better. But I think that one should move on when the course ROM is achieved.

Really good point Riku. In the video the knees come to about an inch in front of the chin, not totally tucked under the chin like I was suggesting.

For me it's more about my body being folded in half so stomach and chest pressed into the thigh my legs are too long so knees to chin just isn't plausible for this. I agree with riku if you have mastered an exercise to the point where it looks similar to video and the notes then move on and stop over thinking it, I know it can be hard to not over think sometimes but you will progress much faster I believe. If you have mastered to the notes and video and think there is still something to squeeze out of it then do the final mocrocycle again but anything more really is a waste. You can always add a set to your warm up to fine tune certain aspects.

I had an wow moment today doing MN/PE1. When I exhale going up my tummy is not in the way so much. Actually I did get over 1" more ROM. I have normally inhaled going up and exhaled going down.

 

Little and somewhat stupid thing IMO

I agree that we can overthink and overachieve on particular exercises, forgetting that the point is to progress to the next level. I don't want to half-ass mastery, but I am eager to progress to new exercises at the same time.

I'm gonna try to squeeze a little more ROM out of this exercise as I'm working towards 5 x 15, then when I achieve that I will move on. I think I'm decently close to the video and I will keep this in my warmup to keep working on compression strength.

When I first started doing this exercise, I barely layed down between each rep, immediately going onto the next rep. This made me fatigue much more quickly, and since I have been emulating the video more closely, I am laying down for that split-second like the athlete does. I feel like this gives a little rest and I'm able to complete more reps, even though I keep my PPT throughout the entire set. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this, or feel similarly?