Push ups .... I'm stuck!

Updste on my progress. I have been trying to do 5x18 pushups and got to the point where I vold do 3x18, 15 and 12. At that point I swiched to 5x15 and managed to do it twice. So after last weeks deload I have now moved to PPPs. I already thought that I would have reached mastery before Christmas, but I regressed to a point where I was barely able to do one set of 18. I belive that the regression was csused by the planche leans getting heavier at that point of time.

The thing with PPP's is that they are actually a pushup in a planche lean stance, so mechanically are more complex than pushups.

In pushups the top position is a Plank (sPL/PE3); in PPP's the top position is a Planche Lean (sPL/PE5), so in order to conquer PPP's with success you've to master Planche Lean first, or at least  know how to put your body in a PL position.

Besides, 5x10 PPP's is a hard scheme, plus the great Xiaopeng Backwards as a rest.

So, don't you think PPP are easy at all or that you're going to fly over them

I know this is nothing new but man xiao pengs are great

I'm happy that Right now I'm near sPL PE4 mastery, so Planche Leans are near. So, I'll probably master Planche Lean BEFORE even moving to PPP. Which seems like logical progress. Some people from F1 are doing PPP with weak shoulder protraction and depression. A lot of push ups for me over here thou First things first.

I was quite happy when I did 4x10 yesterday, until I realized that's only 40 of the mastery 75 . Two more months, I think.

And about the sPL and HBP progressions, how about we introduce a new PE?

Plank + pushups -> One arm plank + one arm pushups -> Planche lean + PPP

I csn do few one handed pushups, but my form is awful ;p

Gray said:

I csn do few one handed pushups, but my form is awful ;p

One handed pushups don't have much carryover to GST.  Not saying they're not worth training in general, but if you want say HBP or whatever, one handed pushups won't get you there.

They're good for impressing people who don't know the trick though.

A cue that HamdiC shared with us was to build torque in the body, via tightening of glutes and screwing one's hands on the floor, to make elbow pits point forward.

With this change alone, I was able to power through 5x13 reps today, and I had some little extra left.

Strength and endurance are important, of course, but so is torque in the body. 

Pretty sure you've tried all this, but in case you haven't it's worth a try.

~Atticus said:

A cue that HamdiC shared with us was to build torque in the body, via tightening of glutes and screwing one's hands on the floor, to make elbow pits point forward.

So you would turn your hands 90 degrees externally instead of pointing forward ?

tfeal said:

So you would turn your hands 90 degrees externally instead of pointing forward ?

Not exactly. This is from my planche work, but the lesson is the same.

For me solid planche work requires externally rotating from the shoulders (until it connects from back/shoulder through biceps etc) and then internally rotating (back against that) from the forearm/wrist to a comfortable position (between 45-90 off forwards for me).

That's rotate em out first, make like a ring planche with hands backward and full activation/protraction/depression, then maintain activation/shoulder position and elbow pit orientation (ie forwards) while turning hands back to your appropriate position. Then when on the ground or whatever, hands maintain their position while you continue to actively protract/depress by keeping up the effort of externally rotating-- 'screwing' your arms into the ground. This locks in my upper back in a particular way that I can press into the floor whilst leaning, rather than feeling like I'm just perching on my arms.

And that is why we all share cues rather than trying to explicate and over-coach every detail This is likely far more detail than anyone would need for pushups, which many people can complete with arm strength alone, but on the subject of torque and in moving forward to PPP, pl leans and more complex exercises, get as many muscles in on it as you can

Edit;

What I mean is, do what Dillon is doing in the first picture here;

https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/5959-scapula-position-for-basic-and-static-exercises/

then maintain that position whilst you turn your hands back in to a comfortable spot.

My left hand points to 10 o'clock, my right hand points to 2 o'clock. This shouldn't be construed as an iron clad rule though as it will be different for everybody due to their muscular/skeletal/body type issues.

As Jon said, you want to turn your left shoulder counter-clockwise, your right shoulder clockwise (this is what is meant by externally rotating shoulders), until elbow pits are completely pointing forward.

This will require you to move your hands as well.  The focus should be on the elbow pits, though, not on the hand placement.

Once elbow pits are forward and you can draw a straight horizontal line between them you can rotate left hand clockwise (without changing alignment of elbow pit) and right hand counter-clockwise to build more torque.

Jon Douglas said:

...while turning hands back to your appropriate position.

I agree that rotating your hands out creates the right muscle activation, but why bother to turn your hands back forward?

Keeping my hands pointing straight out to the sides is what got me through push-up mastery.

thecolin said:

I agree that rotating your hands out creates the right muscle activation, but why bother to turn your hands back forward?

 

Keeping my hands pointing straight out to the sides is what got me through push-up mastery.

Wherever is comfortable for you personally I prefer my planche work and PPP pointed further forward than that.

Jon Douglas said:

Wherever is comfortable for you

Naturally, whatever works.

But within the context of the conversation, I've just found that maintain the external rotation keeps that activation through the entire ROM top to bottom and locks in my triceps. Whereas twisting my arms just adds more tension close to the very top. I'm curious what other people's thoughts and experiences are with this.

Phew I'm glad i'm not the only one with this problem of pushups hitting a huge plateau. Mine is 13, 13, 13, 13, and then bleugh. Sigh... must reorganise my attack, maybe GTG ><

I just moved on from pushups after almost a year, found the strategy that finally worked was

12,12,12,12,12 for week 9

15,12,12,12,12 for week 10

15,15,12,12,12 week 11

15,15,15,12,12

ans so on

nothing someone hasn;'t probably suggested but for me it was more finding the patience and ego check to take smaller steps.

Also try little adjusments to hand positions just a little wider, back and may allow your shoulder to move more freely, individual's joint mechanics may have a part to play . Turning my hands out with the fingers pointing a little sideways also helped a lot.