Thanks Coach-- quick review of F vs. local CF box

Hi all,

I decided to drop into a local Crossfit box today with a friend, Bring a Friend day with proceeds to Philippines aid.

I walked in feeling a bit nervous-- all these 'motivational' pics of people vomiting, lying on the floor in spreading pools of sweat... I train by myself here, so I assumed that I was about to be pushed harder than ever before. And the fact is, I'm only halfway through Foundation-- barely an intermediate beginner by GST standards.

Warmup was a jog up and down the block (maybe 100m? Nothing) and a couple stretches. Hip flexor, some squats, some unweighted windmills.

4x for time

8 Clean & squat (60kg)

11 partner pushups (in time, touching alternate hands at the top-- basically 2 seconds at the bottom, concentric, 2 seconds at top, negative, repeat)

13 jumping pullups (from standing on box)

Now granted, this was a Bring a Friend thing so they wanted to keep it simple and accessible to everyone. I doubt this is representative of their usual workload. We were told to split up the load between ourselves and a partner however we wanted. My partner and I decided we were men dammit and did the whole thing each (put us finishing last, but with substantially more volume). My technique was god-awful-- I couldn't get the hang of the clean to squat, so I gave up and just started curling the weight then squatting it-- I was 3x8 in before I realised I was curling sets of 60kg without struggling. When we finished, it was like flicking off a switch-- no cooldown, mobility, prehab etc-- people just started talking in groups and wandering off.

That WoD was lighter than my warmup, yet there were people on the floor, there was puffing and panting and some sweat pools. I finished without breathing hard and honestly was looking for the real workout. Given that someone like me, barely on the radar by the standards of this forum let alone the wide world of gymnastics, could walk in and smoke everyone in there... that was kind of embarrassing. I was so restless I borrowed their (nice comfy wooden) rings to do some ring strength sets afterwards. When I demo'd a couple of slow muscle ups and curls from (not to) shoulderstand, I actually had jaws drop. Yet people were high-fiving, sipping their coconut water, etc...

It made me stop and think. I'm not very strong and I know my (current) limitations. Yet by the standards of this gym, I was written off with 'oh, he's a gymnast' as if the normal rules or measures of strength simply didn't apply to me. How in the world do people train that this minor level of str is so mindblowing? Why aren't people hitting the weights etc keeping up with me? How can people go to a gym week after week for a couple of years, sincerely push themselves, and yet have trouble completing *that* WoD as rx'd? Even assuming they trained their asses off Thurs and Fri and thus earned a light one today, so did I-- completely as normal for me, BJJ on Thurs night too, this was my rest day. But we did not look the same when we finished!

This quote from BTGB;

How strong is it possible to become with gymnastics exercises?

Amazingly strong. In fact I would go so far as to say, done correctly, far

stronger than someone who had trained for the same amount of time with free

weights.

Coach, thanks for putting me on the right track.

As for carryover benefits, I have since Feb done solely, exclusively F1, 2, H1 and some Rings and Movement material more recently (post Sept), not touched a weight more than my 15kg dislocate bar other than for Jefferson curls, not a single kg added to my squats. Note that today I did 4*8 60kg cleans, curls and squats without a second thought.

Would have been interesting to scale the WoD up and push it a bit.

Fwiw some reasonably impressive athletes at this box, strong guys with some big 1RMs (wish Id the chance to try that!) some good local athletes etc.

So why were they struggling with that workload?! Is it me onto something spooky good, or is it their lack of progress?

Very cool post! Makes me thing, imagine where we'll be if we can all finish Foundation, Rings, Handstand, and Movement Series...

 

Example:

 

CF Coach: Alright guys, today we have a pretty difficult WOD! 100 muscle ups for time! (Clearly implying quality does not matter)

 

Athletes: Aww man! This is going to stink.

 

CF Coach to You: Hey (username), we're going to have to scale this up so you don't embarrass all of us... You're going to have to do 100 inverted muscle ups with a 20kg weight vest.

 

You: No problem!

 

CF Coach: And begin!

 

You start curling your bodyweight + 20kg effortlessly, while the meager population of your local CF box watches in horror as you've already knocked out 10 inverted muscle ups strictly, without even a grimace on your face.

 

All while doing this, you think of the pain that the Hungarian has brought upon you, and realize that it is nothing a mortal could take on. The Rings Series, the Movement Series, they were nothing compared the Hungarian. But the Hungarian has prepared you well. You now know what you are capable of, and it is much more difficult than a measly 100 Elevators, even with 20kg on you.

 

As you reach 50, your arms and torso are becoming a veiny monstrosity of muscle and sweat. The majority who have now taken a break on their 20th look at you with the awe that you looked at Coach Sommer with. They are starstruck. After everyone completes their workout, they lie in a pool of sweat, while you continue with some mobility and prehab. Everyone slowly surrounds you, and the leader of the CF gym rats asks, as he sips his paleo soda:

 

Leader: Bro, how do you do that?

 

And you answer one sentence, as you walk out with all eyes on you:

 

You: The Foundation Series, and the Series in which that leads you.

 

You are now a legend among men, throughout the entire CF community. People have heard of the man who did the super duper extra hard muscle ups with an extra 20kg on him, but very few have seen him in action. However, there are more and more popping up all of over the world, and they all mention the same thing that that very same man did: The Foundation Series, and the Series in which that leads you.

Jon Douglas said:

......Given that someone like me, barely on the radar by the standards of this forum let alone the wide world of gymnastics.......

I dunno, I've always been pretty impressed by how strong you are.  Back limbers are no joke!

Bipocni said:

I dunno, I've always been pretty impressed by how strong you are.  Back limbers are no joke!

Well, officially, Jon is one of the strongest on this board 

Jon Douglas said:

 

...Even assuming they trained their asses off Thurs and Fri and thus earned a light one today, so did I-- completely as normal for me, BJJ on Thurs night too, this was my rest day. But we did not look the same when we finished!

I was just wondering, have you noticed any of the strength gains from GST affect your BJJ?  Or vice versa?  I'm just curious, I often keep thinking about going back to BJJ training but I've enjoyed being (mostly) injury free the last few years.  After tearing my pectoral and rotator cuff in a tournament and was out of the water for the better part of a year I had had enough.  

About carryover, I joined my old climbing gym, and this Thursday had my first session in three years. Obviously my hand strength was lacking on the crimps, but on the steep overhanging routes with juggy holds, I felt solid with power to spare. Definitely a nice surprise that I didn't have to start from square one.

Since it was an open day, have you considered that the majority of people there were untrained or at least not used to the specific metabolic demand of crossfit?

Jon Douglas said:

This quote from BTGB;

How strong is it possible to become with gymnastics exercises?

Amazingly strong. In fact I would go so far as to say, done correctly, far

stronger than someone who had trained for the same amount of time with free

weights.

 

Let me get this straight, so you are telling me that a gymnast could compete in every other strength sport at the top level as long as they've trained for an equally long time? Not to de-value gymnastics - I do it myself - but I would love to see anyone at 60kg (weight of top gymnasts?) snatch 150kg or clean and jerk 180 or squatting 300kg+ at a powerlifting meet, people spend their whole lives training for these lifts.

 

I think it is ignorant to basically say that gymnastics is the best form of training for everything. I'm not bashing, just saying.

goswser said:

Let me get this straight, so you are telling me that a gymnast could compete in every other strength sport at the top level as long as they've trained for an equally long time? Not to de-value gymnastics - I do it myself - but I would love to see anyone at 60kg (weight of top gymnasts?) snatch 150kg or clean and jerk 180 or squatting 300kg+ at a powerlifting meet, people spend their whole lives training for these lifts.

I think it is ignorant to basically say that gymnastics is the best form of training for everything. I'm not bashing, just saying.

you're singling out one statement from the entire body of this message.

Wasn't the message that he just blew everybody out of the water on the crossfit wod with gymnastics training? That's how I understood it, if I missunderstood it, sorry. Either way, it's a statement.

goswser said:

Let me get this straight, so you are telling me that a gymnast could compete in every other strength sport at the top level as long as they've trained for an equally long time? Not to de-value gymnastics - I do it myself - but I would love to see anyone at 60kg (weight of top gymnasts?) snatch 150kg or clean and jerk 180 or squatting 300kg+ at a powerlifting meet, people spend their whole lives training for these lifts.

I think it is ignorant to basically say that gymnastics is the best form of training for everything. I'm not bashing, just saying.

I sort of agree with your standpoint, but to be fair, no one but you mentioned powerlifting. Jon talked about crossfit, where the weights lifted are much lower, but lifted for high reps, a situation where a fit gymnast could conceivably kick ass.

Apart from that, of course specific training will be required for everyone who aspires to be elite.

I quoted a statement saying free weights, which include powerlifting. 

 

I mentioned weightlifting too, but sure a gymnast might be lifting more and faster than a common crossfitian at some local box. I just felt people sometimes here on the forum believe gymnastics is The training method for the best gains, across several different aspects of other sports. At the same in time, crossfit is known as the #1 cult/sect -  whatever you want to call it - amongst other active people, regarding optimal training.

 

I don't want to argue about this really. I hope my gymnastics training will help with strength, mobility and coordination too, I started F1 like two months ago, and I've made great gains on planche leans so far, among other stuff  

Wah.

1)

Just because people haven't certified doesn't mean they aren't strong. Im a beginner, and very excited to move on, but plenty of people here leave me for dead.

2)

The quote is from Coach, and refers to the fact that across the broad range of training modalities (vertical jump, max str, end, etc) his experience is that GST covers them better than any other (single) protocol. I agree. If you don't, that's cool too. I don't know enough about elite level training to argue over this, but i don't think it would be difficult to find elite athletes who transitioned to specific training for their sport with a strong gymnastics foundation. If you want to argue extreme examples you will need to argue them with someone who has experience with elite GST

3)

Yes, my BJJ has improved a lot even though Im to busy atm to train as much as I want to. I credit smarter body mechanics, joint prep and active flexibility.

4)

I was one of three first timers in a class of 21. The rest ranged from a few months (because they'd done all their fundamental classes etc) to a couple years. About half male half female.

5)

I'm not an idiot, I don't come on here to boast, and I don't accept things with my eyes closed. If I wasn't benefiting from GST, wasn't making the best overall return on my time and effort investment, I would be looking for something else. This synergises with my other physical pursuits and stands up to every test I put it to-- no I am not an elite lifter, it doesn't interest me, but I can surf for hours, roll BJJ, decide to go for a run or a stomp and get bored before I get winded, etc. I hope my genuine surprise at what I am slowly becoming capable of, and my desire to share my excitement is comingle through.

6)

Im quite aware that out here (my town) Im a relatively big fish in a relatively small pond. I just thought CF would be an interesting challenge/playtime and the most likely way to find people who were stronger than me at GST. They hit the weights hard, but i think there were also a lot of people there who liked feeling like big fish-- don't think i made any friends, and they seemed very grateful to be able to chalk it up to 'oh, he's a gymnast'

3x8 60 kg curls without struggling?! That's very nice! How much do you weigh and were those strict form curls? Do you think it was carryover from inverted MU training?

B1214N said:

3x8 60 kg curls without struggling?! That's very nice! How much do you weigh and were those strict form curls? Do you think it was carryover from inverted MU training?

They started off as cleans before I got frusteated and started curling it. I weigh about 83, nothing earth shattering about that other than that I've never tried curling more than about 10kg before. I def think it was from rev mu training-- I regularly do inverted curls in my ring sets. Im a long way from working it seriously though. I highly doubt they were strict form either, i assume I would have been called out if they 'looked like' curls, if you see what i mean

Ah-- got it. I was standing up from a clean setup with slightly bent arms. I couldnt get the swing right so I began faking it by lifting it through. Momentum did begin the movement although did not carry it to 90, and it wasn't from straight arms at the bottom, definitely not strict. So take from that what you will.

Hey, I never claimed to surprise anyone else, only myself!

Jon Douglas said:

Ah-- got it. I was standing up from a clean setup with slightly bent arms. I couldnt get the swing right so I began faking it by lifting it through. Momentum did begin the movement although did not carry it to 90, and it wasn't from straight arms at the bottom, definitely not strict. So take from that what you will.

Hey, I never claimed to surprise anyone else, only myself!

Still pretty significant. The cross-fitters must have been shocked.

B1214N said:

Still pretty significant. The cross-fitters must have been shocked.

Best to ask Alex, Joshua, Daniel etc for above and beyond feats. A friend has 'booked' me in to test all my untrained 1RMs when I finish F4, which will be interesting... one day...

Not strict and less than 60kg, but here is me curling my mother

LOL. "Come here mum, I'm gonna snap a photo of me curling you to show the community" 

gohei_ said:

LOL. "Come here mum, I'm gonna snap a photo of me curling you to show the community"

Actually it was her birthday the other day, hammock chair was my present, so it was 'Jon, come here and stay still.'

Jon Douglas said:

Not strict and less than 60kg, but here is me curling my mother

D'awww

Good to hear your experience.

I am just starting a trial of reducing my Crossfit workouts from 5 a week to 3. I am hoping that the reduced load will help accelerate the gymnastics progress, which will also help to make the CF workouts easier.

Funny to hear that you were curling the weight considering you would have good upper traps with all the gymnastics. Ever wondered why olympic lifters have big traps and relatively small biceps. Imagine how much easier the workout would have been if you could do the olympic lifting correctly:) and reverse curling 60kg with a squat to finish. What can we call that? The reverse curl/squat complex. I don't think that one will make the CF games!

Mark Collins said:

Good to hear your experience.

I am just starting a trial of reducing my Crossfit workouts from 5 a week to 3. I am hoping that the reduced load will help accelerate the gymnastics progress, which will also help to make the CF workouts easier.

Funny to hear that you were curling the weight considering you would have good upper traps with all the gymnastics. Ever wondered why olympic lifters have big traps and relatively small biceps. Imagine how much easier the workout would have been if you could do the olympic lifting correctly:) and reverse curling 60kg with a squat to finish. What can we call that? The reverse curl/squat complex. I don't think that one will make the CF games!

Heh

A couple of people from the class have approached me about running a GST fundamentals thing for them, either as a seminar/clinic at the box or private group training. It would be interesting to work with the people who are very strong with the weights, the challenge of dialling in on weak links is appealing and would no doubt be very rewarding.

I hope no one takes one negative review/experience as Crossfit bashing