Why so much endurance?

While on the subject of endurance, I read that beta-alanine is really helpful in bouts of exercise in excess of 60 seconds - It helps keep the acidity level in the muscles low, so more reps can be performed before fatigue sets in. That sounds pretty much like F1 hits the sweet spot of beta-alanine's benefits. I'm not a supplement type of guy, in fact I don't take any whatsoever, but can't help wondering if this would help nailing the hollow body rocks? 

Thoughts? Is it cheating? Would it even work?

Ravn said:

While on the subject of endurance, I read that beta-alanine is really helpful in bouts of exercise in excess of 60 seconds - It helps keep the acidity level in the muscles low, so more reps can be performed before fatigue sets in. That sounds pretty much like F1 hits the sweet spot of beta-alanine's benefits. I'm not a supplement type of guy, in fact I don't take any whatsoever, but can't help wondering if this would help nailing the hollow body rocks? 

 

Thoughts? Is it cheating? Would it even work?

The effect of beta-alanine is small but real. See http://examine.com/supplements/Beta-Alanine/ for details. I don't think it's cheating, any more than supplementing sodium bicarbonate is cheating, which has a similar effect.

I take it daily, along with creatine monohydrate. It's cheap (about $0.03 USD per serving when purchased in bulk) and easy to take.

Beta-alanine is great. When i first started i did get 2 more round good sparring in a day! If you dont know how huge that is. Try

RiQC said:

Beta-alanine is great. When i first started i did get 2 more round good sparring in a day! If you dont know how huge that is. Try

Alright then, will do! 

Endurance work?!?  

Sets of 15 reps hardly constitutes high rep work.  Now if it was three to five sets comprised of 75 or 100 reps each, alright I could see your point.  But 15 reps?

As I occasionally tell my own younger athletes when they attempt to complain during their warmup when they are required to do 50-60 total reps of various wrist pushups in what basically amounts to one long extended set (with me counting every single rep I might add); if you can't handle a measly 50-60 pushups in a row now, how in the world do you expect to handle training iron crosses later?

You guys are in for a fun ride over the coming months and years as your eyes are opened to what your body is truly capable of with the right training.  

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Ravn said:

Well, I choose to include the hard 15, 30 or 60 rep or second exercises in my warmup, to A: warm up, and B: keep volume high.

 

So, before beginning SL work, for which I'm currently at F2, I'll do 60 seconds ABH, then 60 reps ABR, then perhaps 15 headstand reverse leglifts, and then I'm ready for the work sets.

 

For RC, I'll do a set of pullups, mixed grip pullups left/right, and chinups, switching grips every two reps, then on to 60 seconds of chin up static hang, then on to the work sets.

 

For HBP, I'll do 17 reps of pushups (aiming for 21), then 11 reps of PPP (aiming for 15), then onto 8 parallel bar dips, then I'm ready for the work sets. 

 

You get the picture. You'll maintain your basics AND keep a high volume. 

Hey Ravn, just personal curiosity here.

Do you perform the warmup right before each scheduled exercise, or at the beginning of the training session?

I'm following a similar approach, but I do rounds of previously mastered stuff altogether before tacking what I need to do during the day, then I go into the proper scheduled work.

I was wondering what's the difference between the 2.

Also, to be fair, because I'm still at beginner stages of F1, it's not that I have a wide range of previously mastered drills to warm up with

Strength and endurance are two sides of the same coin. You couldn't separate them even if you wanted to! When you can do iron crosses and stuff, F1 will be EASY!

Coach Sommer said:

Endurance work?!?  

 

Sets of 15 reps hardly constitutes high rep work.  Now if it was three to five sets comprised of 75 or 100 reps each, alright I could see your point.  But 15 reps?

 

As I occasionally tell my own younger athletes when they attempt to complain during their warmup when they are required to do 50-60 total reps of various wrist pushups in what basically amounts to one long extended set (with me counting every single rep I might add); if you can't handle a measly 50-60 pushups in a row now, how in the world do you expect to handle training iron crosses later?

 

You guys are in for a fun ride over the coming months and years as your eyes are opened to what your body is truly capable of with the right training.  

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

15 Reps (at least for me) was never in question, it was the 60s hold and 60 reps in ABR and Chin holds, due to the frustation of not getting there in the last couple of months. 

I appreciate you telling us how hard your athletes work, (speaking for myself again) only working out at home has given me a tunnel vision of sorts in which I dont even realize that most athletes work at such high intensity and just "suck it up". It kinda opened my eyes, thanks.

Thanks coach

Robert

RiQC said:

Get a metronome.

Another option is to Google search "metronome mp3", download a free mp3 of 60 beeps a minute and play it on loop. (10 minutes of it isn't annoying at all......)

Ravn said:

I read that beta-alanine is really helpful in bouts of exercise in excess of 60 seconds - It helps keep the acidity level in the muscles low, so more reps can be performed before fatigue sets in. Thoughts?

I think it would help in the short-term, but would be counter-productive in the long-term. With high-rep work, you are training your muscles to self-clean the lactic waste out of the tissue. To get good at this the muscles need that acidic stress. I would be concerned that beta-alanine would just compensate, and not translate to more endurance the moment you stop taking it.

It's like training two permanent staff (the vessels in your muscles) to clean out a warehouse (your muscles) by hiring a temporary third staff member (beta-alanine). The job will get done better as long as the temp is there, but you're dependent on the temp because the permanent staff never had to improve.

Coach Sommer said:

Endurance work?!?   Sets of 15 reps hardly constitutes high rep work.  Now if it was three to five sets comprised of 75 or 100 reps each, alright I could see your point.

Robmob said:

15 Reps (at least for me) was never in question, it was the 60s hold and 60 reps in ABR and Chin holds, due to the frustration of not getting there in the last couple of months. 

Is there much difference between 15 reps and 60 second holds, though? With a controlled rep speed: 2 seconds of concentric contraction + 2 seconds of eccentric contraction x 15 reps = 60 seconds of time under load, just like 60s holds.

PS. I feel your pain! I've been stuck on some endurance work for what seems like forever. If it helps, keep in mind the longer you spend on something, the more you are restructuring the muscles and tendons involved. It will pay off!

I use to think 3x12 arch rocks was endurance and would kill my back. Now I do 65 to warm up and when I get to 12 it feels like I have done nothing.

I also was worried I would lose my ability to do the high rep work as I progressed, but it hasn't happened.

maolu said:

Hey Ravn, just personal curiosity here.

Do you perform the warmup right before each scheduled exercise, or at the beginning of the training session?

I'm following a similar approach, but I do rounds of previously mastered stuff altogether before tacking what I need to do during the day, then I go into the proper scheduled work.

I was wondering what's the difference between the 2.

Also, to be fair, because I'm still at beginner stages of F1, it's not that I have a wide range of previously mastered drills to warm up with

I do the specific warm-up prior to each exercise.

JasonDupree said:

Strength and endurance are two sides of the same coin. You couldn't separate them even if you wanted to! When you can do iron crosses and stuff, F1 will be EASY!

They are at opposites ends of the spectrum though. Someone with an iron cross could still struggle with some mobility elements and high endurance stuff like 5x60s ABH.

Iron crosses are not as impressive as a 5x60s ABH done with an honest smile...

I meant more full planche push up vs push up type relationship, iron cross and ABH aren't really comparable in this case. What I'm saying is, the stronger you are, the less relative effort it takes to perform a similar movement. So there is still carryover to endurance. Endurance work is still better for endurance though. Nothing should be neglected, strength, endurance or mobility. If nothing is neglected, then there would be something terribly wrong if F1 skills were lost.

Mark Collins said:

Now I do 65 to warm up and when I get to 12 it feels like I have done nothing.

Ravn said:

I do the specific warm-up prior to each exercise.

Do you rest between the warm-up sets and the main workout, or do them together without pause?

I take a bit of rest, just checking today's assignment, perhaps arranging chairs and kettlebells for Im's and such. Not a lot of rest, except in case of HBP, where I have to leave the house for the parallel bars down the road :-)

I rest a minute or so.

Why so much endurance?  Because it's necessary to build up that level of endurance, at that level of strength, in order to move on.  For example, I worked my way up to 5x60 hollow body rocks, and could still only complete 3x12 straddle holds.  I'm not at the level where I can work pseudo planche pushups, but they're pretty hard, I think you would have to build up quite a lot of strength before you get there, and if all you have is pushups the only way to build that strength is to build some endurance.

Remember, the crossover between strength and endurance is greater than most people think.

Mark Collins said:

You have been blessed with type 1a and b fibres. You just have to suck it up and do the work. When you are smashing through the low rep work spare a thought for the people who have type 2 fibres and love the 60 second holds. A least you will develop perseverance

 

 

 

 

This is me for sure.  I can press a 40kg kb without much trouble for multiple reps, but 5X15 pushups really starts to get me, especially on the last few sets.  Same thing with FL/PE1; I feel great for 30sec, or even for the first set or two of more than that, but as the time under load increases I jump very, very quickly from feeling great/maintaining great locked-in form to struggling to maintain even the gross aspects of proper alignment.  

It's good to know that 1) Fiber type might have something to do with it and  2) The solution is still to just shut up and do the work.  My new ABH mantra will be "This isn't actually hard, it's just my fiber type, this is actually hard, it's just my fiber type..."

Ravn said:

Well, I choose to include the hard 15, 30 or 60 rep or second exercises in my warmup, to A: warm up, and B: keep volume high.

 

So, before beginning SL work, for which I'm currently at F2, I'll do 60 seconds ABH, then 60 reps ABR, then perhaps 15 headstand reverse leglifts, and then I'm ready for the work sets.

 

For RC, I'll do a set of pullups, mixed grip pullups left/right, and chinups, switching grips every two reps, then on to 60 seconds of chin up static hang, then on to the work sets.

 

For HBP, I'll do 17 reps of pushups (aiming for 21), then 11 reps of PPP (aiming for 15), then onto 8 parallel bar dips, then I'm ready for the work sets. 

 

You get the picture. You'll maintain your basics AND keep a high volume. 

 

But you dont follow the prescribed ''warm up with the latest mastery completed?''

Shud the warmup sets be completed as one big set before you start on your working sets?, or shud the warmups be preformed before each specific working set? If you know what i mean.

I do all the warmup sets together, personally. The intention is to warmup a single warmup set with one movement would not do much for me.

I look at each progression as sort of modular. RC, for eg, means warmup sets followed by work sets paired with the IM. If I need to move to a different area to use equipment, or if something comes up that needs me to reschedule or split up a workout, I'll shift those modules around.

General warmup, then plug in each specific module for the day afterwards.