Putting it all together

Hi all,

I've been working on this schedule since the seminar, and I'm starting to run out of ideas-- feel like I'm firing blind a bit as I finish up a week 12 and look ahead to the next cycle. I hate to say 'please comment on my routine', but here's where I stand now;

Every session- 5x / week

General warmup... I feel good about this.

Wrist stretches / wrist series 1x10

15 pike compression, straddle compression

10 straight leg bridge wall walks / bridge hops to HS / rev planche reps

Then onto;

Mon/Thurs

Elbow/shoulder prep

Fl/sPL (still finishing kip ext and tuck pl)

HBP;

PPP, a dip, elevated HeSPU (another inch or so to full ROM)

RC;

A row, chin hang, wide L pulls (finished today).

Rings-- just playing around. MU, Lsit, curls, hspu, levers, 360 pulls. Could be five minutes, could be an hour depending on the day.

Heavy dislocates, weighted flex pulls

Tues/Fri

SLS; (still working on GHR)

Mn;

30s FX lsit, straddle L to 5x30 (working back up with flat palms, another 4 weeks on this as Ive no reason to hurry), alternated with 5 heavy shoulder extension reps, followed by some MSH work (kind of a long road).

SL;

SL Pulls to 5x5; negative in layout, back up in tuck, some inverted straddle and inverted pike on the stall bars between sets --> Have been working layout negatives with a static up till this week

Press HS work

-----

I do H1 work sets on each training day; working on a 60 sec HS, and do H2 press work after Tues/Fri work. I also do a dynamic and a flexibility session on Sat, in that order.

I'm progressing fine, I am just hitting the wall of my own knowledge and would like to beg a moment's indulgence to ask more experienced people;

- How best to proceed with RC (onto curls? multi plane pulling? Need to get a rope at this point?), HBP (just work up through BTGB HSPU?), SL (is a ten second hold sufficient to begin working pulls?).

- As for Rings, I'm considering starting through the various WoD ring series again with the much better form and prep I have now. Would appreciate any advice on that.

- General construction-- I think things look fairly comprehensive on paper, for the moment anyway, but am I missing anything glaring?

i can feel you what i'm doing after some feedback from coach during the last UK seminar, unfortunately i will not come in uk in january, probably late in the following date.

i post here what i'm currently doing, check my last answer

https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/11422-iron-cross-schedule/

i've previously got some Foundation final elements like strd pl, RC, sl, HBP. 

For the major part of my actual training i followed what Coach said to me, for the rest i removed some training elements like hs press.

Or better i removed what i don't need, focusing on what i really need.

RC: move on to real rope

HBP: move through the HSPU progressions and then move on to the MPP progressions

SL: I would work up through the standard lever progression, first mastering holds at 5x10s and then pulls at 5x5r (maybe more reps for the easier body positions?). I'd also keep the negative on the pulls in the same position as the positive. 

Rings: at your level, doing the WOD 1-2 times a week should be fine. Just make sure it's not interfering with your other work. 

Thanks guys.

Alex-- I think your advice is a bit above my level! I am not ready for ring HS nd crosses yet, straight arm day is too early for me i think. Thanks though Ill get there

Josh- Thanks, that confirms what I was planning. Although, why do you recommend keeping the body position the same.on both sides of the side lever pull? Is this just personal preference or do you have a particular reason?

Jon Douglas said:

Josh- Thanks, that confirms what I was planning. Although, why do you recommend keeping the body position the same.on both sides of the side lever pull? Is this just personal preference or do you have a particular reason?

It's mostly to keep the progression of resistance ordered. There's a big jump between full-lay and tuck. If you're still working on mastering tucked levers, inserting full-lay work might be flirting with injury. 

At the Finland seminar we went through some ring starters and backwards roll to support as well as elbow supported felge to support were shown. I'm guessing these were from R1.

Joshua Slocum said:

It's mostly to keep the progression of resistance ordered. There's a big jump between full-lay and tuck. If you're still working on mastering tucked levers, inserting full-lay work might be flirting with injury. 

I see. I have at least a couple sets of 10 full lay hold and have been doing the negatives with a static for a while, I just haven't begun pulling back up. Maybe I'll shoot for somewhere in the middle by lowering to horizontal and back up, start in tuck and work my way up.

Christian said:

At the Finland seminar we went through some ring starters and backwards roll to support as well as elbow supported felge to support were shown. I'm guessing these were from R1.

I have a backwards and forwards roll; I'll have to YouTube felge. Coach had me doing assisted crosses and pulls in Arizona.

Thanks guys, I've hopefully got a rope organised (it's been a comedy of errors) and will go with this.

Basically an invert hang then you roll up to support with straight arms and body. Elbow supported.

Christian said:

Basically an invert hang then you roll up to support with straight arms and body. Elbow supported.

I'm having a little trouble picturing the elbow support. Would you mind describing that one for me in a bit more detail?

It wasn't shown, just explained. But either with arms through straps or some type of cross trainer.

Christian said:

It wasn't shown, just explained. But either with arms through straps or some type of cross trainer.

Mm. My initial thought was arms through straps, but I'm not sure I'm game to try moving between inverted hang and support; think my arms would come out.

Thanks to my new rope I'll spend more time on climbing that, blurring into rings time, and work on the basic series.

Cheers Christian

I'll ask again at the London seminar :-)

Christian said:

I'll ask again at the London seminar :-)

That would also be awesome

Hey Jon you felge are actually with open hips or closed hips? i found a very good difference between them in the past.

If you have access to GtGB you can look for the CPP variations, they are very changelling.

For now i'm near your point of "putting it all together" simply cause i've got some confidence with HBP, but i'm not sure if necessary to move on. i have to wait for July London seminar...meanwhile i have to restart again the SL progression and i hope the problem is finally gone.

alex87 said:

Hey Jon you felge are actually with open hips or closed hips? i found a very good difference between them in the past.

If you have access to GtGB you can look for the CPP variations, they are very changelling.

 

For now i'm near your point of "putting it all together" simply cause i've got some confidence with HBP, but i'm not sure if necessary to move on. i have to wait for July London seminar...meanwhile i have to restart again the SL progression and i hope the problem is finally gone.

Hey Alex,

I haven't tried the felge yet, I'm on a deload week so I'm not introducing new things until next week. I know what you mean, with things being at different levels, and trying to co-ordinate all these training elements. I wonder if it is simpler or more complicated at your level, with more tools but more benchmarks reached.

I've dabbled in the CPP. I don't yet have a solid wide MU yet, so I'm limited to things like FL--> MU reps as a partway to Gallimores. I like the Roeslers, but I can't do the straight body press to HS either. The learning curve for rings is so steep, it seems like everything is either much too easy or much too difficult sometimes

In my previous Rings Strength i've followed the BtGB progressione with some variations due to my gym course.

Before move to rings i did all the vertical pull movements

then mu variations, felge forward to support and backward to support with piked hips, then both of them with open hips, the CPP variations (my technique in Roeslers in improved since my coach explained me better the motion of the HBP on rings), then curl variations, after the mu to bl variation, then rev mu variation (for now i can do it in the version showed by Dillon using the body as a obstacle to make the transition easier from the inv chin up, so i moved to the version "arms outside"). this is for the bent arm strength.

alex87 said:

In my previous Rings Strength i've followed the BtGB progressione with some variations due to my gym course.

Before move to rings i did all the vertical pull movements

then mu variations, felge forward to support and backward to support with piked hips, then both of them with open hips, the CPP variations (my technique in Roeslers in improved since my coach explained me better the motion of the HBP on rings), then curl variations, after the mu to bl variation, then rev mu variation (for now i can do it in the version showed by Dillon using the body as a obstacle to make the transition easier from the inv chin up, so i moved to the version "arms outside"). this is for the bent arm strength.

Alex (or anyone else who is comfortable with it) can you please describe 'felge' for me (or link a video)? Whenever I find it on YouTube I see swings and kips, and I can't visualise 'inverted hang to support with straight arms' properly.

Felge is a swinging skill. It is in the code of points. It is similar to a backwards roll with momentum from a front swing. The difference is you will finish a bit higher and quickly go to support before the end of the skill. You may even be good enough that you the the whole thing straight armed. Also your body will be a bit straighter usually.

I will try to post a pic of the cop. I may also have a video of me training it though I have deleted many things since then.

Daniel Burnham said:

Felge is a swinging skill. It is in the code of points. It is similar to a backwards roll with momentum from a front swing. The difference is you will finish a bit higher and quickly go to support before the end of the skill. You may even be good enough that you the the whole thing straight armed. Also your body will be a bit straighter usually.

I will try to post a pic of the cop. I may also have a video of me training it though I have deleted many things since then.

Thanks Daniel, but in that case don't stress-- I only have XR rings, nothing to swing on. My misunderstanding there.

Azarian is technically a felge to cross. So I don't think felge necassarily need to be a swinging element? I might be wrong on that though.

Jon: By felge and the thing I described there is no swing. If you look up azarian to cross that is the motion, just instead of cross you keep arms in and end up in support. With elbows supported.

Christian said:

 If you look up azarian to cross that is the motion

o.O

Way to make it TOTALLY SOUND SAFER and NOT INTIMIDATING Christian j/k

(A little later)

So, I'm seeing two popular interpretations of this. First is more like an Azarian-- sort of like a front pull to support, starting from a hang. Other people seem to be telling me that 'felge' is just a forward or backward rolling MU. Would someone mind clarifying please?

When you were asking above, Alex, what exactly were you referring to by 'felge?'

Edit;

Is this what you are describing, Christian? This is (broadly) what I meant by 'first' up there.

Just out of curiosity, how do you hang the rings from a tree without it creating an uneven amount of stress on your muscles?

mr jones said:

Just out of curiosity, how do you hang the rings from a tree without it creating an uneven amount of stress on your muscles?

Well, that wasn't me, but generally I hang them from a tree. Throw the buckles over and adjust em individually so that rings stay at the same height, regardless of whether this requires a little.more or less strap length on one.

Even so, I hedge my bets by alternating the direction I face on all my ring element sets

Here in Italy we use the concept of roll with SA or BA and bent body or straight body.

in that case backward roll to support with BA and bent body is what is showed in the video.

the azarian on the other side is a backward roll to cross with both SA and SB

Found a vid of a forum member (though he hasnt been active in a while) doing sorta like it on a dream machine. Check out 00:21 - 00:25.

Now he bends the arms a bit and is on a dream machine. In the version we were told, it would be elbow supported.

EDIT:

Found this vid where they so it exactly as I am trying to say. They do without elbow support in the vid, but again our version is elbow supported: