HS/PE4

Is the weighted bar on the ground, or am I supposed to have the bar and, probably more importantly, the weight suspended?  Regarding this and the HS/PE4-iM, do I move on when I can achieve these with a given weight?  If so, what weight?  Do I not move on until I can do the PE4-iM at shoulder width, no matter how easy the HS/PE4 is for me?  

 

Thanks!

The weight needs to be suspended.

 

25 lbs is the minimum -Coach Sommer

 

Do the iM exactly how it is demonstrated, or work up to it.

 

You're welcome.

That is, begin with 3-5 lb and master that weight with perfect form. Then move on to the next exercise; keep a set or two of this exercise in your warmups and up the weight a little as you go, with the long term goal of around 25lb. If you want to really milk it, aim to work up to 35-45 lb. You'll need to be a tough un to get to this sort of load, and it's seriously impressive niche strength.

I wonder how or what people are using to weight the bar on PE4. I for the life of me couldn't find anything thin enough so that I could fully flex my shoulders without the weight hitting the ground.

Biren P. said:

I wonder how or what people are using to weight the bar on PE4. I for the life of me couldn't find anything thin enough so that I could fully flex my shoulders without the weight hitting the ground.

a weighted bar 

KeilaniG said:

a weighted bar 

Wha-...how...I don't even...Ok, guess I did not get enough sleep today. I am dumbfounded by my own stupidity here.

No, I should have clarified. I meant if anyone had found some ingenious way to add household equipment to the bar or something thin that can be used to progress in small increments of weight. Gym barbells are not the answer, because they increase in large quantity. Ankle weights, too thick for full flexion. duct taping water bottles, not enough weight. Kind of impossible for this movement to jump weight up by 15+ lbs all in one go by using standard barbells. If some people are strong enough to do that, more power to them...but I am pretty weak. I found things called body bars, that would be quite expensive to buy a whole set. You see what I mean here?

By the way, milkman, I noticed no one answered your question directly about the shoulder width. Yea, don't move on until you have shoulder width. I used 33 cm measured from the middle fingers as the goal (The students in H1 do their handstands with a larger width, but I read from Mikael aka handbalancer that at his school his coach required 33 cm...something cool to shoot for. It also makes the handstand line from the front look very nice.

Biren P. said:

I wonder how or what people are using to weight the bar on PE4. I for the life of me couldn't find anything thin enough so that I could fully flex my shoulders without the weight hitting the ground.

I hung ankle weights over a broomstick, then held the ankle weights and went down till my knuckles barely brushed the floor.

 

Sorry, my prior comment regarding the weight is a rule for all the HS1 weighted IM's, but wouldn't bother with this one; go to something like 5kg and move on my mistake there.

Oh hah, you posted at the same time as me.

Ok, that makes more sense to me to move on at 5kg.

You mean you had the ankle weights resting against your anterior forearm? I didn't think of this, , just gave it a try and it works fine...but if 5kg is the general recommendation then I wont bother. I haven't done this movement in months anyways.

Biren P. said:

Wha-...how...I don't even...Ok, guess I did not get enough sleep today. I am dumbfounded by my own stupidity here.

No, I should have clarified. I meant if anyone had found some ingenious way to add household equipment to the bar or something thin that can be used to progress in small increments of weight. Gym barbells are not the answer, because they increase in large quantity. Ankle weights, too thick for full flexion. duct taping water bottles, not enough weight. Kind of impossible for this movement to jump weight up by 15+ lbs all in one go by using standard barbells. If some people are strong enough to do that, more power to them...but I am pretty weak. I found things called body bars, that would be quite expensive to buy a whole set. You see what I mean here?

By the way, milkman, I noticed no one answered your question directly about the shoulder width. Yea, don't move on until you have shoulder width. I used 33 cm measured from the middle fingers as the goal (The students in H1 do their handstands with a larger width, but I read from Mikael aka handbalancer that at his school his coach required 33 cm...something cool to shoot for. It also makes the handstand line from the front look very nice.

well, in reality you asked how people were weighing their bars. not if anyone was using a weighted bar to begin with. i just wanted to sass. 

Biren P. said:

Oh hah, you posted at the same time as me.

Ok, that makes more sense to me to move on at 5kg.

You mean you had the ankle weights resting against your anterior forearm? I didn't think of this, , just gave it a try and it works fine...but if 5kg is the general recommendation then I wont bother. I haven't done this movement in months anyways.

Yep, that was me.

That should be fine. You can keep working up the weight if you want, but yeah, the time and effort would be better spent on upping the weight for mobility elements. Generally the more the better, but given that you can't anchor yourself anywhere with this one best to complete it and put your time where it belongs

Could have your hands hanging off and edge so there is more room for weight to hang

ausswe said:

Could have your hands hanging off and edge so there is more room for weight to hang

I feel like the people on this forum are significantly more intelligent than me...not sarcasm...why don't I think of these things!?

Biren P. said:

I feel like the people on this forum are significantly more intelligent than me...not sarcasm...why don't I think of these things!?

i think it's the sassleberries.

Biren P. said:

I feel like the people on this forum are significantly more intelligent than me...not sarcasm...why don't I think of these things!?

The best thing about these sort of commmunities is that there is SOMEONE who has made every conceivable error and permutation thereof, and there's usually a commonsense work around benefit from others' false starts

Reach reasonable weight as 11-12 kg (as in my case) gives more foundation for following elements like IM7 and IM8.

Everyone, thank you for all the input.  I really appreciate it. I tried PE4 with 15 lbs. last night and that was no problem for 5 sets of 30 seconds.  I will try with 25 lbs. next time.  I think I should be able to pull that off.

However, the iM portion is a different story.  I am not able to do this at shoulder width with a dowel, let alone a weighted bar.  So, given that I can do the PE4 portion with the 25 lb. weight at mastery (5 sets of 30 seconds), I assume that I do NOT move on to level 5 until I can do the iM with the same weight at shoulder width.  I think that may take me years.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Milkman said:

Everyone, thank you for all the input. I really appreciate it. I tried PE4 with 15 lbs. last night and that was no problem for 5 sets of 30 seconds. I will try with 25 lbs. next time. I think I should be able to pull that off.

However, the iM portion is a different story. I am not able to do this at shoulder width with a dowel, let alone a weighted bar. So, given that I can do the PE4 portion with the 25 lb. weight at mastery (5 sets of 30 seconds), I assume that I do NOT move on to level 5 until I can do the iM with the same weight at shoulder width. I think that may take me years. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

if you mastered it in pe2, then whats the hiccup? it's only done as reps

Keilani:

I obviously moved on from PE2.  Perhaps I should not have, but as I understood it from a previous post, the shoulder width was something to strive for, not necessarily something I needed to achieve before moving on.  At my age (43) and being a rather large guy, I'm not sure how long it will take me to get to the point of being able to get the bar to shoulder height even unweighted.  I'm nowhere near that now.  I can do it with a very wide grip, but at shoulder width...no chance.  However, as I said, the PE portions are pretty easy so far.

Milkman said:

Keilani:

I obviously moved on from PE2.  Perhaps I should not have, but as I understood it from a previous post, the shoulder width was something to strive for, not necessarily something I needed to achieve before moving on.  At my age (43) and being a rather large guy, I'm not sure how long it will take me to get to the point of being able to get the bar to shoulder height even unweighted.  I'm nowhere near that now.  I can do it with a very wide grip, but at shoulder width...no chance.  However, as I said, the PE portions are pretty easy so far.

true that  

 

have you tried massaging yourself with a lacrosse ball? especially in this case, thoraxic spine, around the entire armpit(i found tight spots in my armpit around 1-2 times) and your first rib/clavicle? 

 

I'd invest 5 minutes on a exploratory for tight spots all over those areas, when you find one, apply a comfortable(to you) pressure and hold it for a count of three full breaths or whatever is necesary until you feel a change in the tissue(the change will mostly be a lack of the uncomfortable pain you felt when you first found it, followed by relaxation in the area) you'll notice that the tension dissipates without having to steam roll and do the pain face. 

 

I did this all over my chest/clavicles/upper shoulders and in my case(even the base of my neck, between my trap and clavicle) and it improved the shoulder extension quite a bit. I know it will do those who have desk patrol(i'm one of them) a whole mess of good. 

 

aside from that, keep pushing forward. the iM's do their job, we just need to facilitate that job and sometimes soft tissue restrictions become so fastidious that it makes mobility work more strenuous(at a mental and therefore, physical level) than it needs to be. 

KeilaniG said:

true that  

 

have you tried massaging yourself with a lacrosse ball? especially in this case, thoraxic spine, around the entire armpit(i found tight spots in my armpit around 1-2 times) and your first rib/clavicle? 

 

I'd invest 5 minutes on a exploratory for tight spots all over those areas, when you find one, apply a comfortable(to you) pressure and hold it for a count of three full breaths or whatever is necesary until you feel a change in the tissue(the change will mostly be a lack of the uncomfortable pain you felt when you first found it, followed by relaxation in the area) you'll notice that the tension dissipates without having to steam roll and do the pain face. 

 

I did this all over my chest/clavicles/upper shoulders and in my case(even the base of my neck, between my trap and clavicle) and it improved the shoulder extension quite a bit. I know it will do those who have desk patrol(i'm one of them) a whole mess of good. 

 

aside from that, keep pushing forward. the iM's do their job, we just need to facilitate that job and sometimes soft tissue restrictions become so fastidious that it makes mobility work more strenuous(at a mental and therefore, physical level) than it needs to be.

Your advice is better than some Physio's I have known. You might need to change careers

Mark Collins said:

Your advice is better than some Physio's I have known. You might need to change careers

that's from hanging out with professionals on the forum and taking what works

it's hard to not learn from such a diverse team(and the drive to master elements, will make you go above and beyond learning just what you have to do and also go further out of your way to learn how to do it in a way that can be constantly duplicated.)

now if only i could get that down with my nutrition and sleep...

edit: i'd go for it depending on the potential for income/flexibility. my grades weren't so great, which is why i went the route of developing my own business. dropped out of school because i couldnt afford to pay to learn how to do accounting on a book, when i already used peach tree in my parents office. we'll see where this road with GB will take me, because i am for sure getting certed and want to work through the entire curriculum.

So the bar is suspended in this movement?  From the video it really looks as though the hands rest on the ground, and I was under the impression that the point was more working out the incredible tightness I feel in the hips and shoulder girdle when trying to maximally flatten everything out.

This exercise feels great. Still not 100 percent sure what pulling the ribs down means but it feels super easy so I'm sure I'm doing something wrong . I basically hollow my body and bring my ribs in towards my stomachs. It is hard to stay hollowed so legs laying comfortably on the ground I must say.

Probably someone would have to correct me if I'm wrong, but I think pulling the ribs down is just another way to say posterior pelivc tilt. At least, that's what it feels like. To me, pulling the ribs down feels like you are pulling the ribs in the opposite direction of the shoulders. For example, if you try PE5 with a posterior pelvic tilt, you would see what I mean. shoulders are going toward the ceiling, like someone on your back is pulling them up, but the pelvis is moving toward the ground, like someone in the ground is pulling them down. If that makes any sense...

Steve Sisk said:

So the bar is suspended in this movement?  From the video it really looks as though the hands rest on the ground, and I was under the impression that the point was more working out the incredible tightness I feel in the hips and shoulder girdle when trying to maximally flatten everything out.

Yes, confirmed by Coach that the bar must be off the ground. I'll hunt the link where I asked this a while ago.