Not following a routine?

Hello all.

I want to ask you of your opinions on this matter:

What do you think of not following a routine? By this, I mean you have a set of goals and a set of exercises to take you there, but you do not follow a weekly routine.

You just do the exercise you feel like, and the number of reps and sets you feel up to that day. Of course you will have to have some sort of continuity, but that's in your head not in a book.

I think if I do this, then my training volume will go up quite a bit. But that's okay.

I currently do not follow GB, but I own F1 and H1. Doing regular calisthenics instead.

Thanks!

It seems to me that doing this could work, but only if you apply the discipline and drive catered for by a reasonably set routine.

As an alternative, why not try more completing a set minimum or baseline of work in a session, then having license to play?

I suppose it might work for some time. Sometimes one needs to change pace or shake things a little. However you'll probably after a while you'll probably not evolve much and will fall prey to only training what you like and are good and not working weak points.

I think for long term goals a structured approach is the only way to go. 

Jon's suggestion is good, sort of a first work then play approach, as long as the play doesn't interfere with the work.

I should clarify that I think this approach (completely unstructured) is outright inferior to a professional program by a suitably qualified Coach and adhered to correctly.

Yeah, I tried this and got nowhere fast.  You have F1, stick to F1.  The consistency is where all the progress comes from.

Why are you interested in this idea? What are you hoping to gain from not following a routine?

Unless you have truly phenomenal self-discipline, impeccable self-awareness, a good memory, and enough training knowledge to design your own program from scratch, you'll find that you will progress much more slowly and plateau much earlier. If you already have H1/F1, why toss aside world-class programming for doing whatever you happen to feel like at the moment?

There are numerous advantages to sticking to a program. You have an easy way to keep track of your progress. You always know exactly what you should be able to do on a given day; you may feel tired or sad or unenergetic, but when you know in no uncertain terms "today I have to do 5 sets of 60 reps", it gives you the drive to power through. If you're just mucking around, there's nothing external to let you know how hard to work, and thus your workouts become much more strongly affected by external factors. There's also the issue that without a routine, you have to think about what to do while you're doing it. Not only will you be much more likely to forget things, but stopping to think about what comes next interrupts your flow and makes your workout time less efficient. 

If you program a vacuum cleaner to randomly move around your home, eventually, it will have vacuumed the whole place and achieved the goal set for it.

I am scratching my hear wondering how that can be applied to your training.........

Unless the vacuum cleaner you programmed is exceptionally good it will probably miss quite a few spots and end up overlapping others. Not very efficient.

Thanks for the responses.

I think it depends a bit on your goals; unstructured is best and most fun if you do recreational training, but the results are limited. 

Structured training is best if you do goal-oriented training.

But then again, people have different definitions of goals, recreation and fun.

Mr. Slocum: I toss aside world-class programming for my own programming. I bet Foundation could take me further, but I like better to make my own program. Besides that, I agree with all you said.

Fred: I can see your analogy. I can't put it to use using my logic though.

Conclusion: I will continue writing sets, reps and exercises on a piece of paper, week after week. And implementing a rest week every 4th week. 

I'm still fascinated by the idea of not following a routine, but I have higher goals than that.

Hannibal for king supposedly did not follow a routine, look where that got him(pretty far, but not AS far as a routine would have got him).

I want to be stronger than him, and a routine will take me there.

Ps. I knew what I was going to get when I posted it on GB Thanks guys. Help much appreciated!

Menging

I'll just leave this here....

Coach Sommer said:

To my mind a client's primary choice is to decide if they want to pursue excellence and if they trust me to take them there. If the answer if yes, then I take over the training and provide them with what they need to do, how they need to do it and when they need to do it.

As I occasionally need to remind my own athletes; "There is one member of this conversation who is a long time US National Team Coach and who has trained National Champions; and the last time I checked - you are not it. For this training process to be successful there needs to be a division of labor; your responsibities as a student and my responsibilities as the coach. Your responsibilities as the student are to decide to pursue excellence and then to strive to implement my instructions and corrections to the best of your ability. My responsibilities are to provide the very best training available and to hold you accountable for living up to the highest possible standards."

Outside of that initial choice to pursue excellence, I am not overly concerned with what the client or the athlete 'thinks' they need. This is training, not coddling.

Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer

menging said:

Thanks for the responses.

 

I think it depends a bit on your goals; unstructured is best and most fun if you do recreational training, but the results are limited. 

We could offer more constructive advice if you describe your goals in more detail. I tend to assume that people are focused on progressing and getting as strong as possible; it sounds like you have other goals in mind. 

With my own routines (a better way to say this might be "no routine") I never made consistent progress. I never knew if I had stayed one progression long enough or even too long, I got to an adv. tuck (frog>tuck>adv.Tuck) but plateaued at 2-3 seconds. The truth was that my frog stance wasn't solid but I couldn't see that at the time. Since following Coaches routine (F1 and H1) everything has improved - my strength/endurance/mobility and all injury free, I even look bigger. 

Like others have said it depends on your goals, mine are to be bigger, stronger, faster and mobile and the foundation series delivers all this and remarkably quickly. I also enjoy it even when it's hard work (I'm looking at you ABH!) 

I can't imagine why you would pick any other training regime. It simply works.

p.s. I think FredInChina is saying the surest path (to our goals) is the straightest - Randomly setting our might get you there in the end it just takes more time and effort. 

I don't like to share my goals on a public forum. Nothing personal, I just like to keep it to myself.

I know this isn't the right forum to ask for reasons NOT to follow Foundation, but thank you for the criticism. It's always welcome.

I just like to work a random exercise from time to time. I'll be the first to admit I have been unfocused throughout my training career(even swimming professionally): I have changed the training up WAY too often, and I still do. 

For me, the Foundation program was too regulated. I got tired of counting seconds, and getting obsessed with programming. Additionally, the exercises was too "nitpicky" for me, and I know that probably is the single most un-educated statement made on this forum. 

I'm a minimalist by choice, and having 20 different exercises every week was too much. It felt wrong.

Instead, I'm doing 6 exercises, of which every single one feels fantastic and useful. Convict Conditioning anyone?

Bash me all you want for following CC over Foundation, actually I'm asking you to do so. Criticism is always welcome.

Thanks!

menging said:

 

Bash me all you want for following CC over Foundation, actually I'm asking you to do so. Criticism is always welcome.

 

 

But how is berating you for following one program over another constructive or remotely productive? Especially considering you've  already said you're going to follow one over another? Good luck with your training

menging said:

I don't like to share my goals on a public forum. Nothing personal, I just like to keep it to myself...... Convict Conditioning anyone?

 

Bash me all you want for following CC over Foundation, actually I'm asking you to do so. Criticism is always welcome.

 

Thanks!

Okay, since you won't post your goals, lets assume they're the "big 6" from convict conditioning.  I'll break them down for you:

One arm pushup: Easy.  To do a one arm pushup is nothing.  It's a move that you can improve on forever, but to simply push up and down on one arm should be possible for any reasonably strong person, provided you don't care about form.

One arm handstand pushup: This has never been achieved.  Some people are coming close, but CC certainly wont get you there.

One arm pullup: Undoubtedly requires a high level of strength, and is worth achieving.  However, Coach himself has said that rope climbs and reverse muscle ups are harder.  Also, rope climbs are much healthier for your elbows.

Stand to stand bridge: Following coaches program will (presumably) get you all the way to a back limber.  Much harder.

One leg squat: These progressions finish in F2.  There is much more leg conditioning to come later.

Hanging leg lifts: These barely rate.  They're not even at the end of F1.

Notice there is no straight arm strength elements.  So no press to hanstand, no front lever, no planche.  There's also zero mobility work, which a lot of people will tell you is where the gold is in coaches programs.

I'm not saying that you can't build strength with CC compared to Foundation, I'm just saying that the amount of strength you will have at the end of the program is vastly inferior.

menging said:

I just like to work a random exercise from time to time.

No-ones saying you can't do this.  It's even recommended for people that are working well below their current strength level.  Personally, I like to throw all kinds of random things into my workouts.  I like to test myself on the military press, and I'm about to start deadlifting.  You can still do whatever you want while following F1.

Think of it as a list of progressions, just like CC.  There's a progressions standard you need to meet in order to move onto the next level.  Just like in CC.  The only difference is, there's a solid plan for progress at each individual level, but it's up to you whether you want to follow it or not.  All you need to do is meet the progression standard before moving on.

menging said:

I'm a minimalist by choice, and having 20 different exercises every week was too much. It felt wrong.

I've been there.  We've all been there.  Some of us got pretty banged up along the way, and so now we idolize Coach as some kind of genie, magically making our pain go away through solid training principals.  The fact of the matter is that he knows his stuff, and his program is vastly superior to the work of "Paul Wade" who isn't necessarily even a real person.  (Ever seen a picture of him?)

This post isn't for you, not really.  It's for other people who happen to stumble across this thread and might get some bad ideas about training.  You're free to do whatever you want.  You can train smart, train stupid, not train at all... It really doesn't matter to me.  But I don't want innocent bystanders to become misguided.

Coach's programming is simply the best, and I'm going to keep saying that until someone better comes along.  I think I might have a long wait.

 If you are questioning or seeking others opinions it is dead to right obvious that you don't have certainty. To put it bluntly. You cannot ask for genuine opinions if your aren't genuinely interested in hearing them.

MattProulx:

I think you're right. Me asking this question here should tell you that I'm seeking advice. If not, why would I even bother to post this here?

Bipocni:

I'm really at a standstill here. Part of me knows that Foundation is superior to CC, and that part is begging me to put together a routine for F1 right now. But another part of me is in love with CC. I actually think I brainwashed myself into thinking that CC was some kind of god-program that would be the be-all-end-all of my training. The one-arm pullup, -pushup and HSPU have become romanticized insde my head.

When I consider the idea of completely dropping CC for a pure Foundation routine, I have this feeling I will miss out on the exercises in CC. I sense I'm in a hurry to reach the big six, and if i begin Foundation there will be a great delay before I will attain the one-arm pullup for example.

Therefore, my sub-conscious have made this stupid notion that completing the big six will somehow be step 1, and prepare me for step 2 which will be Foundation. Even though I know Foundation will bring me the big six faster. 

Sorry. This post was more of a psychological evaluation than a training post.

Think I have to do some soul searching.

Thanks.

Edit:

Of the big six, for me only one-arm pushups, -pullups and HSPU remain to be mastered. Do you think its possible to attain them using Foundation? And of course some specialized skill development training for the movements, not volume.

If you follow Foundation+Handstand, you will move towards your goals faster and with fewer injuries than if you had followed CC. 

menging said:

Of the big six, for me only one-arm pushups, -pullups and HSPU remain to be mastered. Do you think its possible to attain them using Foundation? And of course some specialized skill development training for the movements, not volume.

Chances are you have a one arm pushup already.  Straddle your legs as wide as they can go and lean into the pushup so you're pushing with your lats.  It'll be ugly as hell, but should be achievable.  I got my one arm pushup in a couple weeks after practicing them kneeling.

One arm pullups are beast.  They don't even come up in Foundation, but chances are you'll have on by the time you finish F4.  At the very least, you'll be close enough to train the specifics without blowing up your elbows.

Handstand pushups will be making an appearance in F3.

You can always follow CC after your F1 workout if you want to.  The trick is to make sure nothing else you do interferes with your Foundation workouts.  Then you have as much freedom to screw around as you could want, and you're still getting productive work done.

menging said:

I don't like to share my goals on a public forum. Nothing personal, I just like to keep it to myself.

 

I know this isn't the right forum to ask for reasons NOT to follow Foundation, but thank you for the criticism. It's always welcome.

 

I just like to work a random exercise from time to time. I'll be the first to admit I have been unfocused throughout my training career(even swimming professionally): I have changed the training up WAY too often, and I still do. 

 

For me, the Foundation program was too regulated. I got tired of counting seconds, and getting obsessed with programming. Additionally, the exercises was too "nitpicky" for me, and I know that probably is the single most un-educated statement made on this forum. 

 

I'm a minimalist by choice, and having 20 different exercises every week was too much. It felt wrong.

Instead, I'm doing 6 exercises, of which every single one feels fantastic and useful. Convict Conditioning anyone?

 

Bash me all you want for following CC over Foundation, actually I'm asking you to do so. Criticism is always welcome.

 

Thanks!

The program that is best is the program that you are going to perform. Even if F1/2 is superior if you are unable to comitt to it emotionally and physically for a year, and you strongly feel that won't be able to keep it up, what is the point of starting it? If you can comitt to CC, even if it is inferior, then I would say go for it. No one is going to hold a gun to your head and say "you have to perform F1/2 or else" - and I'm not sure I'd suggest that you feel that way about it. It should come out of a desire and love of excellence as Coach Sommer was quoted above saying.

This is a quote that really gets me going. To do what, is up to you: