Manna / Tuck-Up Form Check

Here is my Manna / Tuck-Up today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzpEwZwA2Lw

I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong because I really struggle w/ this one.  The reason I stay at the top so long (instead of touch and go) is because I'm trying to achieve strong compression in my core before coming down.

My feet do not touch the floor throughout the video although from the camera angle it might appear that they do.

I'm still on Week 1 of the Tuck-Up after 7 months and it's still shaky as you can see from the video.

Any help to master this one is appreciated.  

Video is private.

thanners said:

Video is private.

Thanks for letting me know.  I changed it so it can be viewed now.  I appreciate any help you can offer.

Do you feel that this is a strength or mobility issue for you? Perhaps both? Can you do the child's pose from yoga? I would say if you can it's a strength issue and if you cannot do the pose then its likely a mobility problem. I think I would do negatives. Pull my knees in them try and hold them there and slowly open up. Perhaps with my back leaning on the wall at first. Not sure but there are many more knowledgeable people here that I'm sure will share their incite.

Hi, For me it´s hard to say where you lack. Just like howens said.

I woud just try to do lots of reps first and try to relax. Maybe to 5-10 reps and start to clean it after that.

With lots of reps you will find the movement more easily i think.

I'm not an expert either but I would say it's mostly a mobility issue. You are rounding your upper back a lot in order to try to compress and to me that indicates compensation for a lack of mobility in the region where the compression actually needs to take place. It also looks like you have an arched back/anterior pelvic tilt when you lie down in between the tuck-ups. This may interfere with the active flexibility necessary to lift your knees closer to your chest.

How is your bent hollow body hold (FL PE1)? Maybe you should give this a try:

1) Assume the bent hollow body hold position (this will force you to have posterior pelvic tilt, if you do it correctly).

2) Pull your knees as far to your chest as possible. Do not use your hands, just your compression strength.

3) If your knees don't go any further, lift your torso towards your knees.

How did that feel? You should end up in a position that's pretty close to the top of the tuck-up (only lying on the floor). Maybe this will help you identify your weak links.

Am I wrong or is it not required to keep your feet off the floor for the entire duration of the set?

his feet could be just hovering over the ground IF he always had PT because hip flexors wouldnt allow him to relax all the way to the ground. thats what im doing right now.

doing that compression bit that Michael is excellent to feel the top position and also stretching your hip flexors(being taken care of as you progress through FL iM or you can incorporate hip flexor stretches to your routine before[to limber a bit] and then twice a week have a harder session after your workout.

slowly but surely, you're hip flexors will relinquish their hold on you and you'll be able to lay flat on the ground

Michael, thanks for the suggestion.  Here is my FL PE1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKnyPMbh1nY

Are my knees able to come close enough to my chest or do you see a serious mobility issue here?

I can hold this FL PE1 for at least 30 sec and it actually feels good.  Also, I can do the Straight Legged Windmills mobility drill that goes w/ the Tuck-Up but they don't seem to be helping a great deal w/ my Tuck-Up form.

I do believe lack of mobility is a big part of my problem, but not sure if that's the whole problem.

Also, I can do standing wheel roll outs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DFaYK-aHE0) so I'm not sure why I am so unsteady w/ the Tuck-Up?

federicoC, I don't touch my feet to the ground because I read elsewhere on the Forum that it will help prepare for a later exercise.  If I remember correctly the athlete in the video for PE1 Tuck-Up does touch his feet to the ground.

federicoC said:

Am I wrong or is it not required to keep your feet off the floor for the entire duration of the set?

No it is not required.

There is a trend now to do everything even harder than it is required. It will help i assume. I think that this way one woud never have to leave from F1 I dont think this is how coach ment the program to be used.

IMHO if coach woud wants me to do all there nuances in first PE. He woud had said it.

I think that coach wants us to do what is in the program and progress! The more i study hes methods the more i am shure, that everything will come when it is ment to! Yes you can do everything even better and better and better. I think that this is not the point.

Do not cheat anywhere. Do what is required and move on. And if you had some tips in the seminar, then good for you! Those were for you to help you and thank you.

Just loving the system

dynamo said:

Michael, thanks for the suggestion.  Here is my FL PE1:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKnyPMbh1nY

 

Are my knees able to come close enough to my chest or do you see a serious mobility issue here?

 

I can hold this FL PE1 for at least 30 sec and it actually feels good.  Also, I can do the Straight Legged Windmills mobility drill that goes w/ the Tuck-Up but they don't seem to be helping a great deal w/ my Tuck-Up form.

 

I do believe lack of mobility is a big part of my problem, but not sure if that's the whole problem.

 

Also, I can do standing wheel roll outs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DFaYK-aHE0) so I'm not sure why I am so unsteady w/ the Tuck-Up?

I think your 'lying knee pulls' (for lack of a better name ) look pretty good (although there's definitely room for improvement in your ROM). I watched your first video again and I noticed that you consistently lift your torso first, and somehow this seems to inhibit your ability to complete the tuck with the knees. I also noticed that your lower back 'wobbles' between posterior and anterior pelvic tilt in the top position of several of the reps in the first vid. Does it feel better if you initiate the movement with your legs and really focus on posterior pelvic tilt (round lower back)?

RiQC, You're right when you say to stick to coaches instructions; however whether I lay down completely or not between reps, my problem still persists.  I cannot achieve a good Tuck-Up.  Still not sure what to do about it.  At my current rate I'm not sure I will ever master the Tuck-Up without some kind of additional intervention.  Looking for some good ideas...

I'm sure you will master it. You just need to identify the weak links and find the right cues. I know it's frustrating but try to look at it in a positive way - it's movement research, have fun with it

What Michael said!

And try to do 1 fast set of 10 reps. Not really fast but no stopping. I bet that you will find the flow of the movement better.

To me it looks like it's your hamstring flexibility that is limiting your ability to achieve the final tuck up position. Your lumbar spine seems to be able to flex accordingly judging by the video, but your hip flexion mobility still seems limited. How is your straight leg/straight back hamstring flexibility?

I would be curious to see you pull your knees to you chest while lying on your back. Also, can you pull them to your chest when hanging from a bar. Can you try both and tell me if you can get closer?

Here's my video made this morning where I initiate my Tuck-Up legs first to try to eliminate some of the anterior pelvic tilt:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6p1JxplVaE

It is obvious after 7 months of practicing the Tuck-Up I still having huge problems w/ this movement.  I'm still on week 1 after 7 months.  Any idea how long it will take me to master this at the rate I'm going?

Looking for more suggestions to start getting somewhere w/ this one...

I would suggest lots - really lots - of glute stretching. Spend 10mins stretching them before doing MN PE1. Stretch them, and hamstrings and hip flexors, every day as well. You need to get looser before you can get tighter!

Recently on the forum I've been sounding like an advert for Kit Laughlin's book Stretching and Flexibility, but I'm using it and am getting more and more flexible as a result. I am a typical first class desk patrol zombie. I have to do a lot of pre-hab stretching work before certain PEs. My MN PE1 is now acceptable, whereas before it was similar to yours. [it took me 3.5 months, twice a week]

Good luck!

I thought I would post to be some company to your misery - I am stuck on the first micro cycle of this movement too (and SLS:PE1), though I've only been doing it for 25 weeks, I imagine I'm going to be here for a long time. I have the same problems as people have listed above; mobility, pelvic tilt, tight hamstrings/hip flexors, lack of strength etc etc etc... 

But!

I'm OK with this, it's my weak link and one that needs A LOT of work. The whole time I'm at MN:PE1 the better my weakest link is getting. I know with time I'll improve. Progress with other movements keep my spirits up and assures me that progress will come. 

So until then I'll... Tuck up, tuck up, tuck up, tuck up, tuck up, tuck up.......

I've been experimenting with mobility modalities (joint compression moving in and out of ROM for pulses, barbell smashing, foam rolling, contract-relax) and getgig some tissue work done has helped me loosen up years of tight tissues and scarring and its made my overall movement better

maybe you can look into that, mobility WOD is a good resource for that

KeilaniG said:

I've been experimenting with mobility modalities (joint compression moving in and out of ROM for pulses, barbell smashing, foam rolling, contract-relax) and getgig some tissue work done has helped me loosen up years of tight tissues and scarring and its made my overall movement better

maybe you can look into that, mobility WOD is a good resource for that

Thanks KeilaniG, I'll check out mobility WOD.  While I do my fair share of foam rolling, mobility, etc I hope there is something out there I'm not already doing to help me start cranking out the Tuck-Ups.

What I don't know is:

1.  Can I find a mobility/stretch/exercise that will significantly assist me in developing my Tuck-Up?

2.  Will it just require years of practicing the Tuck-Up for me to Master it (this would suck big time since its only PE1 of F1)?

3.  Maybe I will never fully Master it because I'm already 52 (this would suck even worse because I might just be wasting my time in years of a futile struggle).

If I had just started the Tuck-Up I wouldn't have all these questions, but it's been 7 months and I can't even do 3 good ones.

Still looking for an answer to my woes with this one....

Frits is doing Foundation and Handstand and he's 70 yrs old and he is doing cross work, i believe. that is amazing, ya know?

it is possible for you. keep going

Dynamo, check out Kit Laughlin's book Stretching & Flexibility. In the book Kit outlines an extremely effective method of stretching that will actually improve adult flexibility, some great lesson plans that you can follow to build overall flexibility, and most likely some variations of stretches you haven't seen or tried elsewhere.

I'm still working on tuck-ups myself and what I've found most useful has been to determine your limiting factor(s) and then focus specifically on fixing those. Can you assume the final body shape at the top of the movement if you assist yourself with your arms or just sit on the ground?

If no, then where do you feel the greatest resistance while trying to do so (is it in your hamstrings or lower back or both)? Focus your stretching efforts on increasing flexibility in that (those) area.

If yes, then it's simply a strength issue. You can just try holding that top position (once you've pulled yourself in with your arms and lowering from there down to the ground or just performing the movement and giving yourself a light spot with your arms until you don't need any assistance to get into the movement. Also, during this time it's best to keep volume low, so stay in weeks 1-4 of the progression until you can do all the sets and reps in good form. Then start building your volume as per weeks 5-12.

I´m truly sorry that I repeat myself. But...

In my mind you will never gonna master this PE1 if you only do the first micro cycle. If you struggle this much in PE1 you should do it more.

The first PE is as easy as it gets. In the more advanced stuff this would be bad bad advice.

Your form is so off still that 10-15 reps 2 to 3 times a week will not help you as much as you want.

Do not over train yourself. But try to do some every day. That really is good way to go. When you start to understand what your body is doing. You can help your self.