I know this may sound like a silly question but I'd love a response. I have been into body weight exercises for about 8 months now. I haven't had a set routine so I decided to purchase F1 in order to strengthen my routine as well as develop the strength necessary to tackle some gymnastic skills. After my first session of F1 today I couldn't help but feel that I didn't work hard enough. Within each exercise I did the hardest variation I could complete with good form my but will I really improve in strength by doing 5 sets of 15 pushups monday-thursday? My old "routine" would consist of me doing about 400 pushups a week in some way(usually 200 monday, 100 wed, 100fri) or another and I guess I'm afraid if I drop down to only 150 a week I will lose strength. I trust the program but I guess I just need some reassurance.
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Is F1 really challenging enough?
Started by Ystat, October 7, 2013 · 32 Replies · 1,164 Views
I would advise you go back and read the "Your First Workout" page within the program. Your first F1 workout should be a mastery test for all the PE1 elements. I'm not saying that you are not capable of doing the further progressions, just that you will save yourself in the long run if you make sure you have actually mastered both the strength AND mobility elements of each progression first.
If you can master a bunch of the lower progressions then it should only take you a couple of weeks to test through them and get working on the elements that give you trouble. Whats a couple of weeks in the grand scheme of a program thats going to take years anyway?
Also, in response to you worrying about loosing strength based on the number of push ups you are doing. At 200 push ups in a day you are not really gaining much strength, you are just gaining extra endurance. If your goal is to do more push ups then yeah do more push ups. If your goal is to get stronger, then you need to be doing exercises that are harder then push ups, and Foundation will provide you with that and more.
There are people with advanced gymnastic strength moves doing F1, so in short: yes.
Try again, making sure you emulate the video on form, tempo and follow the 2 written cues. Don't allow yourself any rest between sets, think of it like a circuit. You may surprise yourself how hard some of the exercises are. If you can do a particular exercise for mastery without losing form/tempo/straining excessively, move on. You'll likely find the next one challenging. In your case you may dominate the pushups, but the next exercise Psuedo-Planche-Pushups will ramp up the intensity.
This is why you progress to more difficult movements. Obviously you will stop responding to a mere 5x15 pushups, but how about to 5x10 pseudo planche pushups? What PE's are you at for each element?
Trust me, doing a good, slow tempo with no rest in-between except for mobility, it does get kinda tough. And really following the exact form on the vids makes it more challenging, it will certainly make you stronger. Pushups, for example, requires your shoulders to touch the ground [external rotation if you wish], and it makes regular old pushups seem like child's play. If you master 1 exercise/mobility, move on to harder steps, emphasis on master.
(Though I do remember 1 thread where you didn't have to follow the exact tempo on vids, but at least close to it?)
I appreciate everyone's replies. I agree, the pushups in F1 are much stricter and require more strength. What I mean to ask is if after 5 sets of 15 pushups, I give myself 5minutes rest and my muscles feel up to it, can I do another several sets of a different pushup variation?
Awarenesss said:This is why you progress to more difficult movements. Obviously you will stop responding to a mere 5x15 pushups, but how about to 5x10 pseudo planche pushups? What PE's are you at for each element?
Today was my first day playing with the different elements. I have myself starting at the first level of each element at week 4. My worry is that at the end of my workout, following F1, my body did not feel as thoroughly worked. I assumed this was due to a reduction in the volume of my workout. Am I just overthinking this?
Art Vandelay said:There are people with advanced gymnastic strength moves doing F1, so in short: yes.
Try again, making sure you emulate the video on form, tempo and follow the 2 written cues. Don't allow yourself any rest between sets, think of it like a circuit. You may surprise yourself how hard some of the exercises are. If you can do a particular exercise for mastery without losing form/tempo/straining excessively, move on. You'll likely find the next one challenging. In your case you may dominate the pushups, but the next exercise Psuedo-Planche-Pushups will ramp up the intensity.
Even still, Im hesitant to say that five sets of one variation of pushup will be enough of a workout for that muscle group. Am I horribly misinformed? I'd love to learn more if you can correct this way of thinking. Perhaps I've been going about this training incorrectly.
Ystat said:I know this may sound like a silly question but I'd love a response. I have been into body weight exercises for about 8 months now. I haven't had a set routine so I decided to purchase F1 in order to strengthen my routine as well as develop the strength necessary to tackle some gymnastic skills. After my first session of F1 today I couldn't help but feel that I didn't work hard enough. Within each exercise I did the hardest variation I could complete with good form my but will I really improve in strength by doing 5 sets of 15 pushups monday-thursday?
Yes.
5x15 pushups may not seem like much. That's because it isn't. You don't gain strength just from massive volume. The key is that the exercises get progressively harder. By the end of F1, you've progressed to dips. By the end of F2, you're doing Bulgarian ring dips. By the end of F4, you'll be doing HBP.
Doing hundreds of reps will only build endurance and not strength.
Joshua Slocum said:Yes.
5x15 pushups may not seem like much. That's because it isn't. You don't gain strength just from massive volume. The key is that the exercises get progressively harder. By the end of F1, you've progressed to dips. By the end of F2, you're doing Bulgarian ring dips. By the end of F4, you'll be doing HBP.
B1214N said:Doing hundreds of reps will only build endurance and not strength.
So doing 5 sets of 10 perfect form pseudo-planche pushups builds more strength than doing 200 pushups? I know its very novice-like of me to ask questions like this but I want to make sure I understand how my body works. So I should put each element in my routine at the level I am at and have faith in the set/reps the routine gives me?
Joshua Slocum said:Yes.
5x15 pushups may not seem like much. That's because it isn't. You don't gain strength just from massive volume. The key is that the exercises get progressively harder. By the end of F1, you've progressed to dips. By the end of F2, you're doing Bulgarian ring dips. By the end of F4, you'll be doing HBP.
Bulgarian ring dips? Whoah.
Ystat said:(...) doing about 400 pushups a week (...) I just need some reassurance.
B1214N said:Doing hundreds of reps will only build endurance and not strength.
............ and more generally ingrain bad form, and encourage you to cheat, giving you the illusion of progress. 
I know, I was there: like most serious martial artists, I was doing large numbers of what we called "push up"!
Foundation made me realize how useless they were: after 6 months on the gymnastics push ups, I am still struggling on the last reps of 5x15 - granted, I had surgery on both shoulders (nothing to do with push ups) just before I started foundation, but the reality is that form is everything; every time I've reached the 5x15 holy grail, I've discovered a small tweak that made the form better, and set me back one cycle.
Foundation is the most efficient ego crushing machine ever devised by man!
Ystat said:I appreciate everyone's replies. I agree, the pushups in F1 are much stricter and require more strength. What I mean to ask is if after 5 sets of 15 pushups, I give myself 5minutes rest and my muscles feel up to it, can I do another several sets of a different pushup variation?
No point in doing a different pushup variation. A different pushup variation is still a pushup. They train the same movement pattern
Make yourself a goal. 0'5 Mastery test. Make videos of yourself. Compare yourself to the athelete in the videos. When you feel happy with your results contact Nic and get evaluated. The program is very well balanced and will build a solid base that later will make you progress with all the fun/cool stuff later on. I cannot emphasize how important it is to build this overall basic strenght and perfect form. Believe me, I went full on blast with the wods years ago and had all sorts of "cool" moves, but I also had weak links that I ignored which resulted every now and then in small injuries stoping me to train certain exercises at all for months. There is nothing worse than not being able to train.
If you feel worked about your pushups move on to the next progression.
Follow this program but have patience. Results will come!
Sorry, but it sounds like you have influenced by the bodybuilding ideas of working the upper and lower pecs. The exercises in gymnastics target the body in so many planes of movement compared to other exercise modalities. Don't worry when you are doing workouts with the Planche variations, dip variations, hollow back press you will be recruiting more muscle fibres than you thought possible.Ystat said:Even still, Im hesitant to say that five sets of one variation of pushup will be enough of a workout for that muscle group. Am I horribly misinformed? I'd love to learn more if you can correct this way of thinking. Perhaps I've been going about this training incorrectly.
I remember when I started I thought the workouts seemed too easy. You are in for a shock and you will laugh at how easy your previous push up workouts are. If they are easy master them and move on. If you find the push ups easy you could make them harder by doing the xiopeng forwards with 20kg
Haha 20 kg xisopengs will take the wind from your sail in minutes.
Mate there is a lot to be gains from re reading the program intro again. Not only do you have the exercises themselves, the mobility and rest schedules make the simplest exercises tough. Furthermore, the course details many different weekly workout schedules plus you should certainly test those shoulder of yours with handstand 1. With all of that, like me, you'll look back in a few months and appreciate how you gradually built the intensity and volume in each series. Also like me coming from a bodyweight background you'll find weaknesses and inconsistencies between exercises and between series. In short....study the course well. Good luck.
Jon Douglas, good inclusion for FAQ?
James Hall said:(...) Mate there is a lot to be gains from re reading the program intro again. (...) ....study the course well. Good luck.
QFT!
James Hall said:Jon Douglas, good inclusion for FAQ?
"Is this enough work?" I've included already 'can I add more work' and 'how can I maintain my progress', there's a fair bit of overlap with this one
Ystat said:I appreciate everyone's replies. I agree, the pushups in F1 are much stricter and require more strength. What I mean to ask is if after 5 sets of 15 pushups, I give myself 5minutes rest and my muscles feel up to it, can I do another several sets of a different pushup variation?
Today was my first day playing with the different elements. I have myself starting at the first level of each element at week 4. My worry is that at the end of my workout, following F1, my body did not feel as thoroughly worked. I assumed this was due to a reduction in the volume of my workout. Am I just overthinking this?
Are you starting at the first level of each element at week 4 because that is where you've determined from mastery testing that that is the correct intensity/volume level for your current level of fitness? Or is it just an arbitrary "starting point" that you've adopted?
The course instructions tell us to attempt mastery for all of the first progressions (PE1); making sure that our form is identical to that of the athletes in the included demo videos for both the strength and mobility elements and not taking any additional rest beyond what it takes to complete the mobility element.
If we succeed in demonstrating mastery (film yourself and either post it up here, or at least compare the video to the demo yourself, be honest, to make sure that the form is correct), then on the next workout day attempt mastery of the next strength/mobility exercise pair. Continue this process until you fail to demonstrate mastery. At that point you can determine whether you should start at week 1, 5, or 9 (so that all of your deload weeks will line up) for that element and get working through the cycles until you reach the point where you have mastered that element. Then test the next exercise in the progression and repeat until you eventually master all movements in F4. By that point Coach should hopefully have the Ring series or Hungarian stuff out and you can start working on that. But that's a long way and a ton of strength increase away for pretty much everyone here.
Good luck
Jon Douglas said:"Is this enough work?" I've included already 'can I add more work' and 'how can I maintain my progress', there's a fair bit of overlap with this one
Yep, that will probably answer it. Will the add more work section cover "I can already do x, why do I have to start at y" or "starting at z is too easy...". This OP is quite common however.
Cheers Jon
Keegan Y said:Are you starting at the first level of each element at week 4 because that is where you've determined from mastery testing that that is the correct intensity/volume level for your current level of fitness? Or is it just an arbitrary "starting point" that you've adopted?
The course instructions tell us to attempt mastery for all of the first progressions (PE1); making sure that our form is identical to that of the athletes in the included demo videos for both the strength and mobility elements and not taking any additional rest beyond what it takes to complete the mobility element.
If we succeed in demonstrating mastery (film yourself and either post it up here, or at least compare the video to the demo yourself, be honest, to make sure that the form is correct), then on the next workout day attempt mastery of the next strength/mobility exercise pair. Continue this process until you fail to demonstrate mastery. At that point you can determine whether you should start at week 1, 5, or 9 (so that all of your deload weeks will line up) for that element and get working through the cycles until you reach the point where you have mastered that element. Then test the next exercise in the progression and repeat until you eventually master all movements in F4. By that point Coach should hopefully have the Ring series or Hungarian stuff out and you can start working on that. But that's a long way and a ton of strength increase away for pretty much everyone here.
Good luck
Thank you so much for the thorough response. I'm going to go back and make sure I've mastered these elements before making claims about my abilities.
Thank you to everyone who posted, initially the thought of doing 3-4 exercises a day did not seem like it would produce results. I see now that I need to throw away some of my old mentalities and realize I'm focusing on building real strength now. I will put my ego aside, test myself for mastery on the given elements, and work towards progressing. I'll let you guys know how I end up doing and come to you if I have any more questions. Thanks again for aiding me in my journey 
Mats Trane said:Make yourself a goal. 0'5 Mastery test. Make videos of yourself. Compare yourself to the athelete in the videos. When you feel happy with your results contact Nic and get evaluated. The program is very well balanced and will build a solid base that later will make you progress with all the fun/cool stuff later on. I cannot emphasize how important it is to build this overall basic strenght and perfect form. Believe me, I went full on blast with the wods years ago and had all sorts of "cool" moves, but I also had weak links that I ignored which resulted every now and then in small injuries stoping me to train certain exercises at all for months. There is nothing worse than not being able to train.
If you feel worked about your pushups move on to the next progression.
Follow this program but have patience. Results will come!
Not trying to take this off-topic, but I just noticed that you mentioned we can get evaluated on our progress by contacting Nic. I didn't know we could get evaluated and I'm very curious about this as getting evaluated is very important to me. It serves to validate what I know and is invaluable. Is Nic his user name on the forums? What is the "proper" way to contact him? Start a new thread with a form check, post vids and send him a private message? Thanks.
I have two things to add. One, I believe that testing mastery would be week 11. Starting on week 4 would out you in a delay week. And 2, doing hundreds of push-ups instead of using strict format or more difficult variations is like doing the bench press and just increasing the number of reps rather than increasing the weight when it becomes easy.
Hameed, his name is Nic Branson.
you may PM him and tell him what you like him to look at, if you want to take it a step further to ensure what you're working on is legit for the test the mini mastery tests are available