FL/PE1 bHBH (Bent Hollow Body Hold) form check

I seem to be hogging threads at the moment, so apologies for that.

Just wanted a quick review of the form I'm currently using for FL/PE1 for anyone who has a moment. I initially completed 12 weeks of this element (starting week 1) but failed to hit the times required in week 10. On top of that, I wasn't particularly happy with my form; I felt my delts/upper back were too close to the floor to consider the movement mastered, regardless of the time held; my shoulder blades were only just clear. I've now gone back to the beginning of the cycle with what I hope is correct (or at least better ) form. I've just finished week 3, 5x36s. This is just a single hold recorded after the training holds (forgot to start the camera while training ) for no particular length of time:

http://youtu.be/gX11XyWfX6Q

Took a while to get happy with my neck position for some reason. Am I raised enough? Looks almost like my shoulders/upper back are quite a bit further off the floor than in the demonstration video - am I making my life harder than it need be?!

Feel free to laugh at the appalling tan lines btw...

Cheers

I presume you typo'd and meant week 7. That is some amazing ROM in my opinion - I wish I had that kind of mobility in my spine. You might be making it a bit harder, but your feet look a bit higher than in the demo video too so that probably cancels things out.

Maybe one of the mods, or certified GB Athletes will chime in and offer up some critique, but to me it looks good.

- Chris

I use that position too! just bring your feet a bit closer down and you'll be golden, like Chris pointed out.

for your amusement, a fl/pe1 selfie.

KeilaniG said:

I use that position too! just bring your feet a bit closer down and you'll be golden, like Chris pointed out.

for your amusement, a fl/pe1 selfie.

Dude. Just... dude.

Jon Douglas said:

Dude. Just... dude.

Dude. Form checks, dude...

KeilaniG said:

Dude. Form checks, dude...

I am going to do my best to take a ridiculous selfie in the next week. You mark my words.

You did this.

chobbs said:

I presume you typo'd and meant week 7. That is some amazing ROM in my opinion - I wish I had that kind of mobility in my spine. You might be making it a bit harder, but your feet look a bit higher than in the demo video too so that probably cancels things out.

 

Maybe one of the mods, or certified GB Athletes will chime in and offer up some critique, but to me it looks good.

 

- Chris

 

Cool, thanks. You're right about the typo- had in my head that I truly was in week 3, so that's nice

As far a foot height goes, lowering is no problem. I would say it actually feels marginally easier (and my lower back is still firmly pressing into the floor), sort of like everything is counterbalancing a little better. We'll see if that holds true in the next session though

I plan to take it slow and try to show mastery in another 12 weeks (basically tacking a 30s template onto the 5x36s I already have), as I know jumping to 4x48s is probably going to be too much. Heck, I might even like the hold before I'm done

KeilaniG said:

for your amusement, a fl/pe1 selfie.

 

I don't know what to say...

ajgregory said:

Am I raised enough? Looks almost like my shoulders/upper back are quite a bit further off the floor than in the demonstration video - am I making my life harder than it need be?!

 

To me it looks as if you are too high with the upper body. I think of the hollow position as one where the glutes and shoulders are elevated from the ground, but not too much. Lifting it higher does not make it harder - on the contrary, I feel.

Michael Borregaard said:

To me it looks as if you are too high with the upper body. I think of the hollow position as one where the glutes and shoulders are elevated from the ground, but not too much. Lifting it higher does not make it harder - on the contrary, I feel.

Interesting. For me this position is definitely harder than when my shoulders are less elevated. It seems to me that if less elevated, a greater proportion of the mid back will rest on the floor, thus providing more support and bearing more of the load of the upper body. When raised higher but keeping the weight on the lower back and not the glutes, a greater load is being borne by the abdominals (and it certainly feels like it ). 

I agree that if you were to move into a full situp position with a high chest, you would start rolling onto your glutes and holding the position would be trivial, but I'm not sitting up at all; instead, I'm visualising compressing/rolling my chest into my abdominals (so the movement is forward rather than up) as much as possible which then raises my shoulders as much as they are. The video show the current limit of my "compression". When in the first cycle, the limit of my compression meant my shoulders were only raised a little from the floor. Probably using completely the wrong terminology here, but hopefully you can understand what I'm trying to say

Perhaps I'm missing the point of the exercise entirely, but it is definitely making me stronger

Michael Borregaard said:

To me it looks as if you are too high with the upper body. I think of the hollow position as one where the glutes and shoulders are elevated from the ground, but not too much. Lifting it higher does not make it harder - on the contrary, I feel.

This is correct. The OP's shoulders are much too high.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Thanks Coach et al- looks like my reasoning was totally wrong.

On the plus side I'm confident I could show mastery of this possibly further elements right now, which is nice

I remember when I had this epiphany by rewatching the demonstration video. Shoulders were too high, so I lowered them and it got easier so I was happy. But then, I really tried to activate the glutes and then it got hard again. 

At least, I know I'm using the right form now and I think I'll be ready to test mastery soon.

Coach Sommer said:

This is correct. The OP's shoulders are much too high.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Thanks for clarifying Coach.

Michael Borregaard said:

To me it looks as if you are too high with the upper body. I think of the hollow position as one where the glutes and shoulders are elevated from the ground, but not too much. Lifting it higher does not make it harder - on the contrary, I feel.

Seems interesting that some of us experience the opposite. I wonder what the difference is that you perceive going higher as easier.  Perhaps for those of us lacking in mobility it is that it takes more muscular work to get into and hold a higher position, but for somebody with good spinal mobility it ends up being more efficient?

- Chris

Rather than focusing on head and shoulder height exactly, I would rather have someone focus on getting more of their upper back off the ground in that tight line this can also make your rocks smoother.

Jon Douglas said:

Rather than focusing on head and shoulder height exactly, I would rather have someone focus on getting more of their upper back off the ground in that tight line this can also make your rocks smoother.

If more back comes off the ground, doesn't that end up as shoulders being higher or am I missing something?

- Chris

Not if you compress adequately. At least that's how I see it.

chobbs said:

If more back comes off the ground, doesn't that end up as shoulders being higher or am I missing something?

 

- Chris

Note that Jon didn't say more "back" off the ground, he said more "upper back" off the ground.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

chobbs said:

 Perhaps for those of us lacking in mobility it is that it takes more muscular work to get into and hold a higher position, but for somebody with good spinal mobility it ends up being more efficient?

That could be. I am not very strong (have passed twice through week 5-8 on this PE, but will be moving on next week), but have a flexible spine. I suspect it has more to do with which muscles take the bulk of the load, than the actual amount of weight.

Coach Sommer said:

Note that Jon didn't say more "back" off the ground, he said more "upper back" off the ground.

 

Gotcha. So less ROM, more compression. Unlike SL/PE1 where we want a smooth curve along the entire spine this ends up being more abrupt at mid thoracic. Is that correct?  

- Chris

Just think of making a longer shape rather than lifting (which is obviously going to shorten it overall). You don't want it abrupt exactly, think shallow dish shape. Point your toes, get your arms up with open shoulders and lengthen without breaking your line

Jon Douglas said:

I am going to do my best to take a ridiculous selfie in the next week. You mark my words.

You did this.

i am responsible for nothing. 

ajgregory said:

 

I don't know what to say...

just....forget about it. i donut wanna taco 'bout it.

KeilaniG said:

just....forget about it. i donut wanna taco 'bout it.

Yeah, it's nacho business.

...and get out of my pita, I mean, um...go Funyun yourself.

This selfie thing kinda makes me want to see Yuri or Handbalancer do one with a OAHS.^^

Thanks for everyone's contributions. I think I have a better understanding as to how this is supposed to feel now. Second attempt below:

I'm trying to compress as much as possible so my upper back is raised, but so my lower/mid back remains glued to the floor. My spine has a much more gentle curve in in now (Jon's dish ) and my shoulders are correspondingly much closer to the deck; rocks make much more sense now. I've also lowered my feet somewhat.

EDIT: Just noticed my shoulder blade protruding slightly; is full protraction the intention, to really smooth the the line (else it may prevent a smooth rock)?

Feedback greatly appreciated as always.

Thanks