Is there an ideal schedule?

With the latest Chalk Talk highlighting Coach's discussion of forthcoming material (and the prerequisite that we get ourselves in gear to get our hands on them), I've been wondering today whether there is an optimal schedule routine for progressing through Foundation and H1/2.

I realize that the "ideal" schedule will depend largely on one's individual recovery ability, and I appreciate that both courses are customizable.  However, given average to above-average recovery ability (and the resources and commitment to maximize one's potential to recover), no major time constraints regarding training or other physical/athletic commitments with which GST must share a place, and a desire to apply Coach's GST programs as effectively and fully as possible, is there a preferred routine set out amongst the many options provided in H1 and Foundation?  

I expect that any routine option provided would get one there eventually, but with as scientific and precise as Coach is I can't help but wonder whether one is better for those willing/able to do it.

There is too much individual variance to identify any one schedule as 'preferred'. You must try different schedules until you find the one that works best for you.

Exactly as Josh said. It's a matter of time and practice to find what's right for you. That said, it's easy to make the mistake of putting too much on your body. Rest days are of utmost importance, and Coach's recommendation is that one adds more work to current exercise days rather than compromising a rest period.

My plan is to work up to F7 3 days a week.  Since I'm on the 4 day split at the moment, it would actually mean I have more rest days, despite doing 50% more work.

I'm assuming at the very least you're going to need to be on F7 if you want to do rings, movement ect...

Don't forget as well that your ability to recover from a particular schedule will vary according to other stressors in your life.

Experiment with different frequencies to find your current optimal, but keep an eye on recovery and adjust up and down as necessary

From experience, it is better to gradual add to your workload than to have to cut back through overtraining!

Bipocni said:

My plan is to work up to F7 3 days a week.  Since I'm on the 4 day split at the moment, it would actually mean I have more rest days, despite doing 50% more work.

 

I'm assuming at the very least you're going to need to be on F7 if you want to do rings, movement ect...

Not necessarily. There's the advantage of having more conditioning, but 'more' isn't better, 'more better' is better, if that makes sense

Coach told us that one of his former athletes thrived on 12 hours of conditioning practise. They upped it to 14, and he stagnated. That's how individual it can be.

Some people rock on twice a week. Others need more. I'm just now discovering that I'm making more progress on each element 2x a week rather than 3xf7, even though I didn't have trouble completing my 3xf7 workouts.

I've been a victim of neurotic of behavior when it comes to over-preparation. xD 

so let's look at what you can control.

1.everyone's already stated to start slow and pick up momentum. if you can train 3 days, do so. if you can train 4 days, go ahead. if you can train 5, by all means. Coach would not have released a particular template that would be difficult for us to follow and play catch up. you just have to see where you fit in. 3-4-5 day and the host of options that Cory coded into the workout planner to see it organized

2. breath deeply and don't hold your breath while working out or period. oxygen is very important to us. several minutes without oxygen will do a lot of harm, if not kill us.

3. drink water and frequently(your condition, climate, activity, age, etc will determine this)

4.eat food, eat frequent, eat veggies.

5.sleep well

6.be disciplined and know when to go harder, when to tone it down, when to maintain what you're doing. 

7.ask questions when you're in doubt in forum.

everyone here is helpful, we have everything from a national team coach, extremely capable moderators, senior athletes, young athletes, climbers, doctors, martial artists, performers, there's everything in the forum. 

we're all here to serve each other.

the take away i've had is that if i'm not consistently analyzing what i'm doing, i kind of leave it to my minds eye to figure things out and when you start getting more mature and taking on responsibilities, commitments, workloads, it's helped me to write things down.

if you train, write it down. if you eat, write it down, if you sleep, how many hours? if you're stressed, talk about it, work it out or write it down and work through it.

there's so many variables to the influences that make us progress or hold ourselves back. 

I was just talking to Jon and it hit me that for the past 8 months, I've been holding myself back from too much overthinking. 

so if it were me, write things down. search on here what you need to fix and start playing science fair with your training

Joshua Slocum said:

There is too much individual variance to identify any one schedule as 'preferred'.

To add a little bit to that: the "ideal schedule" also will vary with age... 10 years ago, or 10 years later can make a heck of a difference.

In my experience the results of overtraining will be problems with your sleep, stagnation or even negative progress, injuries that come creeping up on you. As mentioned above it's better to increase training on training days, for example add a session in the morning and then do another at night instead of adding another day. Keep your rest days for REST!

I appreciate everyone's insight.  I think I tend to overreach in terms of volume, so I'm going to try working each Foundation day twice/week rather than three with H1 on two of the off days.  There will likely be a mental barrier with backing off a bit, but I'm going to channel that in to really going after for harder days and see how I feel after a mini cycle or two.

Thanks again!

Bipocni said:

My plan is to work up to F7 3 days a week.  Since I'm on the 4 day split at the moment, it would actually mean I have more rest days, despite doing 50% more work.

 

I'm assuming at the very least you're going to need to be on F7 if you want to do rings, movement ect...

It's not helpful to have your eyes set on a particular plan. You can not know beforehand what workout schedule is optimal for your body. Remember that strength-training is a two-stroke engine: first you work out to provide an adaptation stimulus, and then you allow your body time to build itself stronger. The key to gaining strength as quickly as possible is not to maximize step 1: it's to have both steps in perfect balance. 

That's a very astute observation (and articulation), Joshua.  Very often I've created a schedule that sounds great in my head (and have become attached to it because it meets a bunch of arbitrary mental criteria I've set up) only to discover that in practice it leaves me stiff, achy, and over-worked.  I think this might come from a training history of "gurus" throwing out set in stone templates to which everyone is meant to adhere.  

Though it's taking me a while to fully adapt to the freedom of Foundations customization options, I appreciate the headspace and practicality of a system that is designed to work in real life as well as in one's imagination. Thinking for oneself is always gratifying, even if we seem to resist it at first.

- Note that the point about multiple workouts per day is very important. Your body literally does not know the difference between 1, 2 or even 3 workouts in a given day. As far as your body is concerned, it is simply one loonngg workout that had breaks built into it.

- Allan's most productive schedule ever was twice a day workouts on M, W, F followed by a single workout on Saturday. Note that this is only four training days, with three days (T, Th, Su) of REST.

- Of course the cautions about adequately controlling intensity and intensity and following proper progressions still apply.

- Note also that this multiple workout per day template is something that you must build up to gradually.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Wow, I never thought this was the case. So would it be a good idea to put my 3 sessions of H1 on the same days of my three F7 or are early stages of H1 considered 'rest' (more like active recovery though)?

It is hard to say.  For many people multiple training sessions per day is a very good choice.  However for others, their bodies simply cannot tolerate it and do better on a single session.

As with finding out whether you like a certain food, the only way to actually know for sure is to try it.  Reality has a way of knocking theory out of the ring.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Coach, how long would you give a certain setup with your athletes before determining it was a keeper or needed further refinement? Assuming of course that they weren't just dragging butt and obviously overworked.

- Chris

- That is indeed the key.  Hard to say.  Often times I can tell after a single workout, other times I give it several weeks to a month or so before making a determination.

- My athletes generally tend to progress thru the following schedule during their development:

Once per week, twice per week, three times per week, four times per week, five to six times per week.  All of these are single day workouts.

Then select athletes may progress on to the multiple workouts per day schedule.  Note however that this schedule is based upon their technical proficiency, so it must also be pointed out that conditioning-wise many of them may of benefited from multiple workouts for their conditioning had they been given the opportunity.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Thanks Coach! I appreciate your insight.

chobbs said:

Coach, how long would you give a certain setup with your athletes before determining it was a keeper or needed further refinement? Assuming of course that they weren't just dragging butt and obviously overworked.

- Chris

I asked exactly that question at seminar. In addition to Coachs response, it seems this in an area where having an experienced coach who knows what to look for makes all the difference

Jon Douglas said:

I asked exactly that question at seminar. In addition to Coachs response, it seems this in an area where having an experienced coach who knows what to look for makes all the difference

Agreed. Knowing what to expect as regards progress seems very specific to this type of training. Being able to gauge overtraining though is definitely easier for us than it is for a coach. We can more easily monitor morning heart rate, sleep, etc. ... abiding by those signals is the tricky part though.

My wife indicated to me just the other day that she was feeling quite tired mid-afternoon and her heart rate is up - this is on our deload week too. So I am going to adjust our schedule to an F7 format 2 days/week (M/Th) with stretching and H1 on two other days (W/Sa). 

If she continues to have trouble I won't really know if the change to all 7 movements in one day is too much, or if it is just the increase in volume from week 4 to week 5 that does it. Too many variables!

- Chris

Hi Chris-

This is a more lateral response to your post, but it reminded me that in lieu of an experienced gymnastic coach, I feel very fortunate to be married to a woman who knows before I do when I am over-reaching in my training (i.e. mood, affect, energy level, disposition, etc, etc).

best,

jason

There are adaptations (neurological, muscular) we want to occur as much as possible. So we want a maximal overall supercompensation.

Several factors affect significantly to these adaptations, like individual differences (age, genetics), diet, sleep, drugs...

Can anybody recommend an article what discuss the relationships between these factors?

If you want to do multiple workouts in a day should you repeat the same workout or do something different for the second workout?

Better for most of us to do different workouts. There were a few threads floating around about ideal programming for 2-a-days, for eg. Doing low rep ring strong early and foundation-style reps later in the day.

That said I'm finding I'm making surprisingly consistent gains with more rest, like 1-2 F7 workouts per week. Curious to try a little playing around with scheduling in a few weeks time

Jon Douglas said:

Better for most of us to do different workouts. There were a few threads floating around about ideal programming for 2-a-days, for eg. Doing low rep ring strong early and foundation-style reps later in the day.

That said I'm finding I'm making surprisingly consistent gains with more rest, like 1-2 F7 workouts per week. Curious to try a little playing around with scheduling in a few weeks time

Thanks for the insight.