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Started by blueonblack0, August 25, 2013 · 17 Replies · 649 Views
Is it just me or is HBP/PE3 way harder than all the others. I can hardly do two PPP but can easily master all the other HBP/PE's. Does anyone know what Coaches reasons for putting PPP's where he did? I feel like they should be the last progression.
I feel like SPL/PE5 should come before HBP/PE3. I think why I find them so hard is because I don't have any planche lean experience and it's going to be a long time before I reach SPL/PE5.
Yes, I do find PE3 to be harder than the others. However, it is a horizontal push compared to vertical with the dips. This is the logical step (besides maybe diamond pushups or something similar) after normal pushups.
sPl/PE5 came to me WAY before HPB/PE3. I guess I just have strong elbow tendons and protractions strength. For the PPPU's, just slowly increase the lean each week. Very small increments, and soon you will even have a planche lean!
I believe the exercises are not in the order of easiest to hardest, rather they are ordered based on logical progressions as Awareness has said.
PPP is easier than full dips. There's a thread discussing this on the forum somewhere, when I have time then I'll find it.
Vincearoo said:PPP is easier than full dips. There's a thread discussing this on the forum somewhere, when I have time then I'll find it.
Not necessarily, it depends on how much you lean. It can be significantly harder than dips. There's also no way bench dips are harder than PPP.
You guys are just thinking about strength, and forgetting about the mobility component as well.
As has been mentioned before, there is a logical progression in place that will make more sense after you move through the program.
Vincearoo said:PPP is easier than full dips. There's a thread discussing this on the forum somewhere, when I have time then I'll find it.
If full PPPu are easier than full dips, you are the exception my friend 
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blueonblack0 said:(...) Does anyone know what Coaches reasons for putting PPP's where he did? (...)
You gotta earn that 0.5 ribbon my friend... 
For me, many of the high rep excercises are much harder than subsequent elements with a lower rep count. Eg. arch body rocks were harder than arch-ups or curl-ups, and on RC I'm still doing PE 1, even though I have done weighted pull-ups for a long time. I guess this is simply the process of closing "gaps in our armour" rather than just adding more strength without balance.
The comparison was that PPP use a lesser percentage of bodyweight. It comes down to a mobility issue. I believe it was charm who said we will run into a similar situation with Korean dips. We'll have the strength, but not the mobility.TANSTAAFL said:If full PPPu are easier than full dips, you are the exception my friend
There's more to it than that (and I really only see wrists being the limiting factor mobility wise, but you can just turn hands out to solve this). PPPs are a more complex movement (neurologically) and the muscles are working at a mechanical disadvantage; compared to Dips that are just straight up and down (i.e. simpler movement) with the muscles working in a normal range of movement.
I've done mastery of sets PPP but I have't fully mastered it yet. When I do I'll leapfrog from PE3 to PE8 
shortly followed by PE9 where I will stay for a while most likely.
Amongst total newcomers to GST, is a regular trainee with s grounding in weights (and the common mobility issues) more likely to injure themselves with ppp or dips hands->shoulders? jwalkers just done something to his sternum due to this for eg.
No one said there was only one hard and fast rule for ordering the elements
FredInChina said:You gotta earn that 0.5 ribbon my friend...
Except that >.<
Here we go: https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/10715-why-do-dips-come-after-pseudo-planche-pushups/#entry103625
Also, the post was by Daniel Burnham, not Charm. Sorry.
Vincearoo said:Here we go: https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/10715-why-do-dips-come-after-pseudo-planche-pushups/#entry103625
Also, the post was by Daniel Burnham, not Charm. Sorry.
You can attribute Daniels words to me anytime XD
Vincearoo said:Here we go: https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/10715-why-do-dips-come-after-pseudo-planche-pushups/#entry103625
Also, the post was by Daniel Burnham, not Charm. Sorry.
Good find, I do remember reading that a while back now. I still agree and disagree. If you go with Daniel, saying that after mastery of both, the dips are harder, I can get behind that. I do also agree about dips being more common in general and more likely to have been worked previously in training. That being said, here's Joshua Slocum in the same thread:
Joshua Slocum said:PPP may be harder than dips, but not because it requires more strength from the same muscles. Dips isolate the triceps much more heavily, whereas PPP's involve more chest. Mastering PPP is not a guarantee that you will be able to breeze through the dip progressions.
As to why dips may come after PPP's: it may be as simple as Xiaopeng's being a prerequisite for good/safe ROM in dips.
...which more encompasses my thought process when making my previous comment.
I will posit the ideas that dips represent a transition into another plane of pressing movement, and that Foundation is designed to build someone from the ground up (meaning someone with no physical abilities to speak of).
Have you noticed that pulls start horizontally and then move to vertical in a way that progressively loads the muscles? Have you paid attention to the positive results people experience with this approach?
The same thing will happen with the pressing movements. Building shoulder, triceps, and chest strength with more and more difficult push ups (remember the warm up sets for maintaining your old abilities and strength) puts you in a position to learn how to move your entire bodyweight rather easily, instead of struggling and picking up bad habits.
Joshua Naterman said:I will posit the ideas that dips represent a transition into another plane of pressing movement, and that Foundation is designed to build someone from the ground up (meaning someone with no physical abilities to speak of).
Holy crap, posits are being thrown around now? I'm out of this one 
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Vincearoo said:The comparison was that PPP use a lesser percentage of bodyweight. It comes down to a mobility issue. I believe it was charm who said we will run into a similar situation with Korean dips. We'll have the strength, but not the mobility.
PPPs put you in a lower leverage position while dips are done at a mechanical advantage. That's why many people who can do full ROM dips still struggle with PPPs because they lack sufficient strength in the disadvantaged position.The full ROM dips have a mobility component since there are people who can't go very deep in the dips due to poor shoulder mobility and that's why some people may find dips harder. It was actually Zach Armijo who said the thing about Korean dips in F2.