L pull up shoulder stability

Hii all. I have made it to RC PE10 L pull up and the bottom position is very hard.  If I lower myself so that I have straight arms (like the video) and then pull up my right shoulder feels very shaky.  i'm just on 3x2 and  Last week I pushed through it and felt my should pop out a bit and that was it for me.  I am going back to 5x1 this week.  The first one isn;t so bad because I can use a little momentum from swinging my legs into the L sit to get out of the bottom but the second kills my shoulder.

What can I do to fix this shoulder instability?  I've seen suggestions to do L pull up shrugs.  If so, what sort of reps would I do? I don't believe it to be a flexibility issue as I am on HS PE7 im with shoulder width grip. 

Thank you.

First. You have really mastered all the preceding elements and iM?

Second first :-) Don't use momentum from lifting to the L to start the first rep. Lift to L, hold, start the set.

If things still don't progress maybe think about doing a tuck L pull and full L lower. Work this till 5x5 then start again at week 1 with the full L.

Or work pullups with an l pullup negative.

I find it odd that you have done full pu, chinups, l chins 5*5 one week and struggling with 3*2 the next. L pullups aren't THAT much harder, ime? You might want to check your shoulder for signs of overuse or injury if its interfering that much, did you have any issues with pe9?

Thanks guys.  Yes all the previous elements have been mastered. I've had shoulder weirdness whenever I go out wide in pull ups previously.  I have broken my right collarbone twice. Generally do neutral grip (palms facing eachother) before starting this program. The bottom of the L chins was very hard but I was able to get through without my shoulder popping out.  Now I'm just a little gun-shy at the bottom.  I'll do 5x1 l pull up with 2x5 l chin warm up this week with no momentum and work from there.  Any ideas on supplemental excercises to strengthen that position?  Is it scapular retraction/depression issue or bicep strength issue? I guess it's whatever hold the shoulder in the socket during a pull up. 

Gillham said:

Hii all. I have made it to RC PE10 L pull up and the bottom position is very hard (...)

 

This is strange; if previous elements were truly mastered, it should not be that hard.

I have difficulty imagining reaching RC/PE10 with unaddressed shoulder stability issues.

Christian said:

(...) Have you really mastered all the preceding elements and iM? (...)

Great question

Gillham said:

(...) Yes all the previous elements have been mastered

(...) Any ideas on supplemental excercises to strengthen that position? (...)

Maybe you'd like to post videos for peer review and advice?

Yes, that would be the previous elements in the RC progression... it will be easier to tell with the videos.

I'll work on getting some vids up tomorrow.

Gillham said:

I'll work on getting some vids up tomorrow.

Could be something simple. If you can put up videos from similar angles we might be able to pinpoint some difference in execution that could be helpful

L Chins http://youtu.be/GLtgXF0w45w

L Pull Ups http://youtu.be/vHfW4ZkII8I

Thanks in advance for the feedback!

Both look good in execution, but they look very hard. Even the l-chin. Looks like you really have to dig deep to get it moving. Were you fresh? Or was this at the end of a session? Based on what you say before and those 2 vids, i'd say work more on the chin version to improve bottom position strength.

Christian said:

Both look good in execution, but they look very hard. Even the l-chin. Looks like you really have to dig deep to get it moving. Were you fresh? Or was this at the end of a session? Based on what you say before and those 2 vids, i'd say work more on the chin version to improve bottom position strength.

Yeah, if those were your first sets, I would def recommend running at least another cycle on the L-chins. That looks to me like too much of an effort face to claim mastery just yet, and you would do yourself a favour by cleaning it up before moving on.

Haha "effort face" yep.  Fresh, first set...thank you all so much for the quick responses.  I am very appreciative.  I'll hold off on the pull ups and get better at the chins.

When you say another cycle do you mean another 4 week cycle e.g. 4x4, 4x5, 5x5, 5x3?

Gillham said:

Haha "effort face" yep.  Fresh, first set...thank you all so much for the quick responses.  I am very appreciative.  I'll hold off on the pull ups and get better at the chins.

 

When you say another cycle do you mean another 4 week cycle e.g. 4x4, 4x5, 5x5, 5x3?

Yeah, I mean just 4 weeks (and re-orient after that to see how you find it). The strength is basically there since you're getting the reps, you've just to get a touch more comfortable with it IMO

Are you sure you are ready for these progressions? You propably should milk the pullups a little more.

looks like they are a little to intense for you right now. how are your pullups in intensity compared to the L progressions.

P5yx said:

Are you sure you are ready for these progressions? You propably should milk the pullups a little more.

looks like they are a little to intense for you right now. how are your pullups in intensity compared to the L progressions.

This too. If your regular pullups put the same effort face on you that these do, then you might benefit from stepping a bit further back. You'll make up the short-term loss of time very quickly with a stronger base.

5x5 Pull ups at the prescribed tempo are a cakewalk.

Gillham said:

5x5 Pull ups at the prescribed tempo are a cakewalk.

Would you mind filming some normal pullups? it seems really strange to me.

i can do L-pullups without much effort and i don't find them much more difficult than a normal pullup.

I have the same problem.  Regular wide pullups are easy for me and I can do 15+ no problem.  I feel the same thing you do when I lower.  I can go right until I need to relax the shoulder then instability limits me from going lower.  The first positive isn't a problem either.  

Ill send you a PM later when I have more time to talk but I believe it has something to do with weak control of the lower serratus and maybe lower lats.  Do you also have trouble with front lever?

If the regular pullups are easy and L is giving you trouble at the shoulder I would suspect something tissue related. What about with legs at 45 degrees instead of 90? Experiment some there and see where it begins giving you trouble. Then you can gradually build up to the final, full, rom version. While doing a bunch of soft tissue work on the upper posterior chain of course.

- Chris

It looks better than you said it did ; your Lsit looks solid.

Like Charm said, one or two more cycles on the previous progression, and maybe revisiting older ones frequently and abundantly in your warm ups should help.

Sounds like Daniel's got firsthand experience. Hope you luck out with a quick fix

Pull up

Thanks again.  I have been stretching but not doing much soft tissue work.  I'll work on rolling out more.

Daniel: Yes, tuck front lever gives me the same problem (last time I tried, it's been a loooong time) doing some critical thinking the movement that causes the problem seems to be similar to the movement when doing a straight arm lat pull down.  What do you call that....um isometric extension with arm in front of the body    clearly not that ....anyhow the more lower body gets in front of me the more it calls on this movement and like you said the more it calls on lower lat and possibly lower serratus.  Thanks for the help and I look forward to hear what has helped you.  Thanks! 

The fact that you are in L-sit begins to put a slight leverage on your arms in the bottom Rom, like a very early front lever progression so it's natural to feel a bit of strain. Good advice above, I would just add that you can spend some time in a dead L-hang to get comfortable with that position.

ok your pullups are definitly solid.

did you try to work on tucked L-pullups and low L-pullups? I think you could really benefit from them

Ok just tried all those pull/chin variations and going from easiest to hardest it goes like this: tuck pull up, L chin, low L pull up, L pull up. Low L feels pretty darn good and I think it may have the best carry over am I right? Any ideas on how to proceed would be appreciated. I'm thinking another cycle of l chin then a Cy le of low l pull up before proceeding to L pull up. Also I will throw in a few L hangs at the end of each workout. Active shoulders or shoulders by ears on that one?