Program evaluation, suggestions & how to make workouts shorter?

Dear forum, 

I've been extremely lucky in finding such an amazing place where people are so keen in sharing their experience. I am a beginner in gymnastics, you can find a bit more on me in the first topic I opened under Digital Coaching for single-leg FL evaluation (https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/12596-one-leg-fl-evaluation/).

I briefly list what I believe is relevant:

0) I'm 26 y.o., 183cm x ~71kg. I am Italian. Hence, I'm not an English native speaker (hope you don't mind).

1) my background is road cycling, which I practiced throughout my youth until 18 y.o. Following a surgery, I left this sport and got interested in powerlifting.

2) I practiced powerlifting for 5 years and competed from 2008 to 2010. My PRs have been

     SQ 190 (at 73.4 BW) IPF rules (2008), Italian nationals. 210 at 78 BW

     BP 130 (at 79.2 BW) IPF rules (2009), Bertoletti. 140 during training at 80 BW

     DL 215 (at 73.4 BW) IPF rules (2008), Italian nationals. 230 during training at 80BW

Needless to say, natural. My strength has always been the technique, which compensate having a body which is not meant for PL at all.

3) After that, I continued with some more sporadic training until the end of 2012, combining lifting, cycling (especially in summer) and I even started running. During this process, I lost 7-8kg of BW and stepped back to ~70kg. My tendency is to loose weight extremely easily, I am very skinny and has always been like this, sadly.

4) In March, for causes that have not yet been elucidated, I suffered from an epididymis infection, which I treated with antibiotics (two cycles of 2 weeks each). Further analysis excluded more serious consequences/issues. Currently under routine medical examination/next checkup is planned in one month. The doctor suggested me to start swimming, a beneficial aerobic activity for people subjected to this kind of problems (simply, physics works). As a complete newbie, I started learning the crawl and I'm practicing twice a week. 

5) At the beginning of May, seeking for alternatives to weight training (SQ and DL generate a lot of tension on soft tissues and hence I have been discouraged in training them heavily), I got interested in BW training and started reading books and references on it. For me, BW training is a completely new and different world, where strength matters but it has to be mastered. I feel much better in doing it compared to weight lifting work, btw. Luckily, I shared this process with a friend of mine that works in sports science. I spent the first 6-8 weeks of training in conditioning and I worked on proper pull ups, push ups, dips (etc) execution form. I focused as well on my general mobility, which was and still is rather poor, and strengthening my core with tons of new (and funny) exercises that while doing powerlifting you completely neglect.

6) In the last 4 weeks, I introduced more specific work and trained generally 5-6 days / week modulating volume and intensity.

Now, I believe it is time to shape my program a bit better and I hope to get some input from you.

My long term goals are:

1) perform a complete, no cheat, pistol squat

2) perform a full ROM glute-ham raise (GHR)

3) hold a full FL for 10"

4) hold a tuck PL for 30"

5) perform a single, arm in, OAP

[i removed the rest of the post, as it could be quite misleading for people. In summary, I proposed here a possible routine and after suggestions from people on the board, I reshaped it entirely to work on the prerequisites first. See next posts]

To quickly update, I started reading the BdGB book. I will go through it in details and see how this resource can help me in shaping my training better. I have a scientific approach to the topic, so I'd like to keep it straight with no unnecessary corollaries. 

Any input welcome.

In the process, I came across Killroy70's workout and found it a very reasonable implementation of the content of the book. I think this would allow me to have session that take up 60-75' and as such, it looks more structured and reasonable than the program I posted in my first topic.

This raises a first question. In Killroy70's workout there is specific work for the back lever. I read elsewhere in the forum that the back lever is a ring specific movement and that for beginners, training on the PL will most likely boost the development of a solid BL, especially if work for the FL is also concomitantly introduced.

I am total beginner with HS, I decided to get HS1 to getting started, so that I can slowly integrate the progressions into my program.

Finally, I can not access the log section on the forum. Is there a place where one can keep a log? I'd like to keep track of my workouts, if possible.

Thanks a lot

Probably to keep a log you could just use a notepad and pen or open a text document on your computer.  The second is what I do.

Killroy70 is a great workout, and has always paired nicely with the prerequisites / warmup summarised here https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/3750-prerequisites/page-8#entry93540

Something to keep in mind is that Killroy70 wont train you specifically for a one arm pushup, but a decent planche pushup will build a lot of the same strength and should get you there all the same.

You need to be careful with back lever work.  A lot of people have hurt themselves by progressing too fast.  I would recommend that you start with a basic feet supported german hang, and stick with that for several months.  Then try it without your feet supported, and stick with that for a long time before you start back lever work.

Sure, I have years of logs on my computer. Thanks for the clarification.

Indeed, I would like to work a lot on the mobility required for the BL even before starting doing anything. I can not imagine myself doing anything like the skin the cat, for example, before months of preconditioning. 

Thanks for your suggestions. Should I read any particular parts of the prerequisite topic?

If you have the money, it's worth it to just buy Foundation and get started on that. It's vastly superior to trying to design your own programming. 

That said, if you're short on cash or just prefer to do it your own way, Killroy70+prerequisites is a good place to start. 

Thanks for the advice. I will check the prerequisites and finish the book first.

It would be nice if somebody could give me additional hints on BL preconditioning (e.g. mobility work).

BL isn't really about mobility. The conditioning needed is for the elbows, working on german hangs palms back helps with this (they are still quite stressful so use assistance as needed). Working up to 60s XR Holds RTO is also an important step here. Be smart about it, stressing the elbows too much is a quick road to injury.

My feeling is that I could have troubles with my shoulders, I have very limited mobility and working on it right now. In addition, I guess you always refer to work on the XR, while in my initial attempts I was using a straight bar.

That said, thanks for your input. Later or tomorrow I will post my program, I will spend a lot of time on the basics. Things are getting clearer now.

about the only mobility work I can think of for a german hang is trying the same stretch but seated with your hands on the floor behind you.  I know that opening up in the shoulders more can remove some of the stress from your elbows.

As for a prerequisites for german hang, decent planche leans, RTO supports and maybe 10 dead hang pullups should all be mastered first.  (I'm working from memory here, but I think blairbob said that in a really old thread around here somewhere)

Thanks.

I'd like to ask you for a clarification. You guys call it dead hang PU. However, for me this simply means that your arms must be fully extended at the bottom. Now, full extension along with touching the bar with the mid/lower chest at every repetition is the only way I qualify something as a regular pull up. Is there any other difference or are just they the same?

You have to come to a complete stop to kill your momentum at the bottom of each rep.

You're doing it right, don't worry.

I had a program like yours before I got F1, but after purchasing it my strength gains have skyrocketed. It is likely they were facilitated by my mobility gains. This could be of particular interest to you, as you are struggling with mobility.

Sure, what I mean is that there is no other way to do pull ups in order to call them such 

I got H1 as well, now I do have all material to work on. The main reason why I do not want just to follow a program is that I enjoy studying the science behind physical preparation. This means, mastering concepts not only following routines. I did this with powerlifting and obtained decent/good results in my BW class, and now I can use the very same concepts to novice in PL efficiently. Experience pays off, always.

Thanks!

The solution is simple:  Study F1.

I'm learning loads on this forum, while I'm following a program that is getting me the best results possible.  You can always add more work on top if you want.

You are certainly right, I am sure here it will be possible to learn a lot over time. I have access to F1 since couple of days and I studied the material.

OK, I am ready. I modified the first post to make information more concise and I added other important things.

I shaped the program using Killroy70's template. I do still have one question (see bottom) and I hope you could just give me some input on that.

I want to construct a solid basis and work on prerequisites. Hence, I will first work to master the pre-FSP: Plank (with straight arms and scapular protracion), Reverse plank (In arched position), Hollow hold, Arch hold, PB support, Dead hang. Minimum requirement: 3x60s hold, in a circuit. 

After that, which I will treat as FSP, I put FBE work. My original idea was to concentrate XR work on a single day. I train in a BBing gym and I have to carry and hang them there every time (plus, people want to try them and I'd like to avoid them to hurt themselves). However, I realized it does not make any sense and I will use XR whenever the exercise of the day will need them. At the end of the WO, I will alternate leg training (F1 progression to pistols) with core work, and I will finish with a full body static stretching routine which my friend devised for me and that it's nicely working.

To cut it short, my WOs will be organized as follows:

1. Warmup

2. pre-FSP. First, I will test my performance on the 6 elements. Then, I will arrange the work by pairing the movements with corresponding mobility drills from F1 (where applicable). Since I do not want to write anything on F1 here, I just indicate it with "Mob".

        a) Plank (straight arms and scapular protracion) - Mob

        b) Reverse plank (In arched position)

        c) Hollow hold - Mob

       d) Arch hold - Mob

       e) PB support

        f) Dead hang

3. Here I am unsure: to keep in line with Killroy70's WO, prerequisites for HS? If so, I'd like to start with basic work from H1. I am total beginner with it, is it worth spending time now on it or should I wait?

4. FBE, 3 working set of 3-5 reps, very slowly aiming at 5x5 before maintaining and moving on (6 weeks at least per element).

    a) Day 1 - horizontal plane pushing and pulling (currently: Pushup XR bulgarian & tuck FL pull ups)

    b) Day 2 - curling and dipping variations (currently: chin-ups-L & dips (isokinetic - 5s, weighted))

    c) Day 3 - pullup e HeSPU variation (currently: pull ups XR bulgarian  & HeSPU box)

    d) Day 4 - CPP variations (because multiplane work is too much for my current level) (currently: muscle ups XR negatives)

5. Legs OR core (alternated WOs)

     Legs = F1 for pistols, from the beginning. My stability is ZERO.

     Core: core and HLL (currently: V-ups tuck & HLL- tuck half) alternated with lower back and obliques (currently: archups & archups side to side)

6. Static stretching

After that, it might take months I now (no prob, sure it's worth it), I will work towards.

The only question I have at the moment is on point #3. Tomorrow I will do the first test. I expect the worst to be the arch hold, we'll see. Soon I will also start filming the execution, I'd like to make sure I am doing it right.

Needless to say, thanks a lot.

Federico

If you have purchased F1, I suggest you attempt mastery at each of the starting progressions, with form the same as in the videos.

Feel free to follow your own program, but I can tell you right now it's not as good as F1...

So hang on, you've bought H1 and F1, and you want to drop it in favour of Killroy template? And you want to assemble this routine by yourself rather than use the professional experience & information you just paid for?

Have I got that right?

Yes, correct. As I said before, I think about F1 as an amazing resource, not a ready-to-go template for PLers that get started with GST, which have my time (and other) constraints. As athlete, I do not believe in pre-compiled routines. Being new to something does not mean being equal to everybody else. Of course, I might be wrong, but overall I believe that if I build the prerequisites than I am ready to get into the FSP. By that time, I will master more concepts. If I realize that I fail along the way, then I can simply step back. Sure that the proposed work does not hurt, in contrast to what could have happened by neglecting this pre-FSP work.

Any other comment?

Btw, thanks!

federicoC said:

Any other comment?

Btw, thanks!

Nope. Good luck and keep up with your mobility

Well, you might not fail, but as everyone will say, foundation will work better. Just do foundation and H1 exactly as they say. You're only robbing yourself of progress. They might be pre-compiled, but I thought myself I could make a better program than coach's Workout of the Day, then I started that, and in the few ones i did before foundation was released, I made more progress than ever in just a few weeks, then foundation came along, and my progress skyrocketed. Coach Sommer has decades of experience and I had a year and a half of working out. Go figure? What you're doing doesn't really make much sense.

federicoC said:

As athlete, I do not believe in pre-compiled routines. 

 

 

F1 is a precompiled routine, but Killroy's isn't?

Try to not think of F1 as a routine but a collection of benchmarks and standards that must be met before you can move to the next benchmark. It's also the only training tool I know of that equally considers and develop your mobility.

If you are dead set on using your programming at least test yourself on F1 every now and again. Then you see if you are making progress.

Vincearoo said:

F1 is a precompiled routine, but Killroy's isn't?

To clarify, Killroy routine is an amateur routine based on BTGB. Foundation is the professional update / replacement.

Last I heard Killroy (the member) was also doing F1 and was raving about it.

But you are absolutely free to do whatever you want to this is just identifying the facts for anyone new to GST who might stop by.

Edit;

https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/9920-wod-130131/?p=96745