Swinging Elements on Elite Rings

[Kai Liow]

Hey guys i have a pair of elitle wooden rings from www.ringtraining.com. I have them strapped on a really sturdy place. However, the safety tips warn agaisnt performing swinging elements on them. Anyone know why is that so? I dont think they're gonna snap or anything

[Coach Sommer]

Because either the rings or the straps may fail.  Conditioning rings are NOT designed for this usage.

 

Swinging elements should only be performed on competitive gymnastics equipment specifically designed to handle these skills safely.

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Peter Smrek]

check my test video here in equipment section..  i have tested rings made of wood.  400kg no problem.  maybe next time i will do some more advance test for you..(swinging)  dont be scared   rings  made by myself from veeners. so i am sure..they are ok do it yourself

[Daniel Burnham]

Even if the rings themselves do not fail in a sudden swing do you really want to chance the straps. They are most certainly not made for that. To test them is dangerous and irresponsible.

[Coach Sommer]

I will repeat this once again for those who seem to have missed it all of the other times; do not perform swinging elements on conditioning rings.  Ever.

 

400kg is a drop in the bucket.  Many of the higher level swinging elements generate 7x-10x bodyweight thru the bottom of the swing.  

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Guest SuperBru]

I will repeat this once again for those who seem to have missed it all of the other times; do not perform swinging elements on conditioning rings.  Ever.

 

400kg is a drop in the bucket.  Many of the higher level swinging elements generate 7x-10x bodyweight thru the bottom of the swing.  

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

On the topic of force generated, is it true that some of the static holds on the rings require the gymnast to support 10x his own bodyweight?

[Daniel Burnham]

On the topic of force generated, is it true that some of the static holds on the rings require the gymnast to support 10x his own bodyweight?

No. Physically impossible.

[Joshua Slocum]

No. Physically impossible.

Nonsense. Do it in a centrifuge!

[Jon Douglas]

Nonsense. Do it in a centrifuge!

Wouldn't that be [sunglasses] close to impossible? [/sunglasses]

[Coach Sommer]

Torque, or inch pounds, is determined by multiplying the applied force by the distance from the pivot point to the point where the force is applied.  For an iron cross, in plain english that means half the bodyweight times the length of the arm from the shoulder down to the wrist times two.

 

Given the angles involved between the upper arms and the torso the general equation for an iron cross is relatively straight forward;   

(sleeve length x half bodyweight) x 2 (you have two arms after all) = Inch pounds for an iron cross.  Obviously different people will have slightly different attachment points, but for a rough overall estimate of the forces involved the equation as is works fine.

 

The specific examples below should help you to clearly understand why the great ring men of the world have shorter arms; note that the 180lb gymnast with 21" sleeves needs to generate more than 1,000 additional in.lbs during an iron cross compared to the 150lb gymnast with 18" sleeves!  

 

It also provides a clear illustration as to why ring strength builds such incredible physiques; even though it appears that the gymnasts are "only" manipulating their bodyweight.

 

For a 150lb gymnast with 18" sleeves:

(18" x 75lbs) x 2 = 2,700 in.lbs

 

For a 150lb gymnast with 21" sleeves:

(21" x 75lbs) x 2 = 3,150 in.lbs

 

For a 180lb gymnast with 18" sleeves:

(18" x 90lbs) x 2 = 3,240 in.lbs

 

For a 180lb gymnast with 21" sleeves:

(21" x 90lbs) x 2 = 3,780 in.lbs

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Afiya Zia]

Will more advanced static holds be safe to perform on conditioning rings?

[Tristan Curtis]

the 180lb gymnast with 21" sleeves needs to generate more than 1,000 additional in/lbs during an iron cross compared to the 150lb gymnast with 18" sleeves!  

 

[Joshua Slocum]

Will more advanced static holds be safe to perform on conditioning rings?

Yes. The danger is that instantaneous loads for swing skills can easily exceed 10x bodyweight. Whereas the load on the rings for static holds is always precisely 1x bodyweight.

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

(...) the great ring men of the world have shorter arms; note that the 180lb gymnast with 21" sleeves needs to generate more than 1,000 additional in/lbs during an iron cross compared to the 150lb gymnast with 18" sleeves!  (...)

 

For a 150lb gymnast with 18" sleeves:

(18" x 75lbs) x 2 = 2,700 in/lbs (...)

 

LOL... I will have to generate 26x100x2 = 5,200 in.lbs

That's nearly twice the torque of the 150lbs Trex example!

 

 

Note: That's inch pounds (in.lbs) not inch per pound (in/lbs)

[Kai Liow]

Thanks for the replies! I probaby wont try swings for now, although the elite rings are supposedly tested for a tonne

[Mark Collins]

41200 for me. I cannot shorten my arms, so I had better start losing weight!

[Guest SuperBru]

Torque, or inch pounds, is determined by multiplying the applied force by the distance from the pivot point to the point where the force is applied.  For an iron cross, in plain english that means half the bodyweight times the length of the arm from the shoulder down to the wrist.

 

Given the angles involved between the upper arms and the torso the general equation for an iron cross is relatively straight forward;   

(sleeve length x half bodyweight) x 2 (you have two arms after all) = Inch pounds for an iron cross.  Obviously different people will have slightly different attachment points, but for a rough overall estimate of the forces involved the equation as is works fine.

 

The specific examples below should help you to clearly understand why the great ring men of the world have shorter arms; note that the 180lb gymnast with 21" sleeves needs to generate more than 1,000 additional in.lbs during an iron cross compared to the 150lb gymnast with 18" sleeves!  

 

It also provides a clear illustration as to why ring strength builds such incredible physiques; even though it appears that the gymnasts are "only" manipulating their bodyweight.

 

For a 150lb gymnast with 18" sleeves:

(18" x 75lbs) x 2 = 2,700 in.lbs

 

For a 150lb gymnast with 21" sleeves:

(21" x 75lbs) x 2 = 3,150 in.lbs

 

For a 180lb gymnast with 18" sleeves:

(18" x 90lbs) x 2 = 3,240 in.lbs

 

For a 180lb gymnast with 21" sleeves:

(21" x 90lbs) x 2 = 3,780 in.lbs

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Thanks for the helpful post Coach, it was a very interesting read.

[Guest SuperBru]

41200 for me. I cannot shorten my arms, so I had better start losing weight!

If you maintain your current weight you will gain more strength if you know what I mean?

[Mark Collins]

If you maintain your current weight you will gain more strength if you know what I mean?

Just looking for a short cut!

[Guest SuperBru]

Just looking for a short cut!

Aren't we all;) However, as the saying goes, "Slow and steady wins the race."

[Coach Sommer]

The above review of the forces involved also helps to illustrate why if you have not previously mastered rope climbs prior to beginning focused ring strength training, your ring strength progress is going to very quickly come to a screeching and sudden stop.

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Mark Collins]

The above review of the forces involved also helps to illustrate why if you have not previously mastered rope climbs prior to beginning focused ring strength training, your ring strength progress is going to very quickly come to a screeching and sudden stop.

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

I expect that is why most people don't get much further than a muscle up.

[Afiya Zia]

I expect that is why most people don't get much further than a muscle up.

Quite a few people got their levers by sensibly applying the principles introduced in BtGB, but that is besides the point.

[Alessandro Mainente]

can be those type of cirque routine be used to attach the rings for swing elements?

 

 

http://www.unicycle.fr/aerien/cerceaux-voltige/suspentes-cable-pour-cerceau-2-maillons-n-9-la-paire.html