Mastery of sPL/PE1>iM - Swivel Hips

When performing hip inward/outward rotations, pressure in the knees indicates that you are pushing further than your hip flexibility allows. This may cause knee problems, and does not increase hip flexibility - so my advice is to be very attentive to this.
Note that building flexibility is different from building strength - you do not progress more with stronger exertion, but on the good side, you can practice much more frequently because less restitution is needed. Try doing e.g. a static version of the swivel hips for a 30-60 seconds twice a day to both sides, but using no force to press the knees towards the floor. That should increase flexibility rapidly.

(PS I am a complete newbie at GST but a long-time yoga practicioner).

Doing static stretches can help, but lately I've found that doing active stretching for the hip rotators is proving more effective. What I discovered was that my hip internal rotators in particular were very weak and that I was not really activating them correctly while performing this exercise.

Try doing some Active Isolated Stretching (AIS) for the hip external and internal rotators as part of your warm-up on days when you will be doing swivel hips to help wake up and strengthen your neuromuscular connection with those muscles.

Search Youtube for how to properly do so (I prefer the supine version).

Then add some static (either active or PNF) stretching at the end of your workout.

Hope this helps.

I did the MobilityWOD Split Jerk mobilisation for hip internal rotation and I got both knees on the ground easy! there was a "tug" on the knees on the first rep, but after that it was okay.

Aadil Siddiqi said:

I did the MobilityWOD Split Jerk mobilisation for hip internal rotation and I got both knees on the ground easy! there was a "tug" on the knees on the first rep, but after that it was okay.

Can you post a link to that wod?

P5yx said:

Can you post a link to that wod?

Second.  A google search turned up nothing...

Bipocni said:

Second.  A google search turned up nothing...

Yes it did.

http://www.mobilitywod.com/2011/01/episode-151-the-runnersplit-jerk-dream-mob/

I train it Grease the Groove style. It feels so nice

Wait, that's not it :l

The exercise I saw was as follows:

1) Stand in front of a bench (a high bench)

2) lunge one foot up onto the bench

3) Your standing leg should feature internal rotation of the hip. Exaggerate this as far as your hip will accommodate

4) Move around in circles and front to back to hit your hips from all over

Aadil Siddiqi said:

Wait, that's not it :l

The exercise I saw was as follows:

1) Stand in front of a bench (a high bench)

2) lunge one foot up onto the bench

3) Your standing leg should feature internal rotation of the hip. Exaggerate this as far as your hip will accommodate

4) Move around in circles and front to back to hit your hips from all over

Oh Well, I still found the link I posted facilitated my swivelling hips today

Aadil Siddiqi said:

I did the MobilityWOD Split Jerk mobilisation for hip internal rotation and I got both knees on the ground easy!

 

Both knees on the ground easy? Is that with BOTH glutes on the ground at the same time as both knees? I am quite flexible, and cannot get both knees close to the ground without lifting one of the glutes sligthly and resting on the other (which is very easy). And to my eye this is also what the boy in the video does. Can someone confirm that they are themselves doing this iM with both knees and both glutes touching the ground at the same time? :-)

The bottom musculature of my glutes (no pun intended) rises off the floor, so I look a bit like the athlete in the video.

Michael Borregaard said:

Both knees on the ground easy? Is that with BOTH glutes on the ground at the same time as both knees? I am quite flexible, and cannot get both knees close to the ground without lifting one of the glutes sligthly and resting on the other (which is very easy). And to my eye this is also what the boy in the video does. Can someone confirm that they are themselves doing this iM with both knees and both glutes touching the ground at the same time? :-)

I'm still having trouble with this one, glutes definitely lift somewhat, if not completely off the floor. This is actually the one and only iM that I chose to postpone mastery of, because I can tell that it will be years before I'm able to get the required ROM, and I wasn't willing to put off planche development for that long. This is clearly against the intention of the course and I do not recommend it, but for myself, I have chosen to work this iM in parallel with the sPL progressions until I nail it. I am curious to know whether this stiffness is caused by tight musculature or actual restrictions in the joint and skeleton. Even though I both do the exercise dynamically, like in the video, and statically by stretching into it, it feels like the end of ROM hits a hard brickwall, where further stretching just doesn't increase the rom. Is this iM achievable for all adults?

Ravn said:

I'm still having trouble with this one, glutes definitely lift somewhat, if not completely off the floor. This is actually the one and only iM that I chose to postpone mastery of, because I can tell that it will be years before I'm able to get the required ROM, and I wasn't willing to put off planche development for that long. This is clearly against the intention of the course and I do not recommend it, but for myself, I have chosen to work this iM in parallel with the sPL progressions until I nail it. I am curious to know whether this stiffness is caused by tight musculature or actual restrictions in the joint and skeleton. Even though I both do the exercise dynamically, like in the video, and statically by stretching into it, it feels like the end of ROM hits a hard brickwall, where further stretching just doesn't increase the rom. Is this iM achievable for all adults?

How long did you work on the iM until you've decided to move on while keeping it in your routine?

Ravn said:

This is actually the one and only iM that I chose to postpone mastery of...  Is this iM achievable for all adults?

I plan to do the same. I can put my palms on the floor next to my feet, while standing with straight legs - but doing swivel hips, I am nowhere near touching with both glutes and both knees at the same time. Insisting on staying with the exercise would be asking for an injury due to impatience, for me at least. 

I sometimes wonder whether some people here make some exercises harder than they really are, because most forum members are in good shape and can do them relatively easily. My impression is that the F1/PE1 exercises should be easy - they are the starting point of the whole system also for the untrained - but the volume required for mastery may be difficult even if you are strong.

If you read Coach Sommer's key points, it says "keep the glutes on the ground" - which is NOT technically the same as saying "keep both glutes on the ground" or "keep full bodyweight on both glutes at all times". I would say that keeping contact with one glute (not the hipbone, but the glute muscle) is i accordance with the pointer - and it feels right for me.

Still have a bit of work before I get the full ROM on the scap shrugs, though. That guy in the video can really move his shoulders 

P5yx said:

How long did you work on the iM until you've decided to move on while keeping it in your routine?

I don't remember, and like I said, I won't recommend it, it's probably a bad idea. I just tested my ROM and when both knees are on the floor, the right glute is half an inch off the floor, while the left glute is more like a whole inch off. This is definitely an improvement, and I think that some stretching in this position would move things forward quite quickly. However, there's still a looong way to go, before doing it with the ease the athlete in the video demonstrates.

Michael Borregaard said:

If you read Coach Sommer's key points, it says "keep the glutes on the ground" - which is NOT technically the same as saying "keep both glutes on the ground" or "keep full bodyweight on both glutes at all times". I would say that keeping contact with one glute (not the hipbone, but the glute muscle) is i accordance with the pointer - and it feels right for me.

I've been thinking this myself.

Having worked on this movement for many months, and experimented with a variety of approaches I can say I have had zero improvement despite all the work put in. Have tried doing this motion and letting the glutes rise, which gives me a slight stretch but also just feels like it is stuck in the hip capsule in some manner. Also tried keeping both glutes planted and can only move about an inch or two into internal rotation - matches my seated internal rotation test.

I am still experimenting with band distractions to try and locate a suitable drill that will show improvement in that range. No luck so far.

If anybody has similar hip IR issues that they have overcome I would definitely be interested in what drills finally resolved it.

- Chris

chobbs said:

Having worked on this movement for many months, and experimented with a variety of approaches I can say I have had zero improvement despite all the work put in. Have tried doing this motion and letting the glutes rise, which gives me a slight stretch but also just feels like it is stuck in the hip capsule in some manner. Also tried keeping both glutes planted and can only move about an inch or two into internal rotation - matches my seated internal rotation test.

 

I am still experimenting with band distractions to try and locate a suitable drill that will show improvement in that range. No luck so far.

 

If anybody has similar hip IR issues that they have overcome I would definitely be interested in what drills finally resolved it.

 

- Chris

I'm by no means a anatomy expert or even so much a novice, but i do invest quite a bit of time studying myself through "Muscle System Pro" and I can see there is -a lot- of different muscles beneath the Gluteus Maximus that is responsible for external rotation of the femur, so the opposite is true for internal hip rotation, you have to mobilize -a lot- of different muscles that have over the course of our lives been squished by sitting down and not using in the ROM's that are promoted for developing the straddle portion of the sPL. 

foam rolling, every once in a while working the muscles with a golf ball or a baseball have proved relief but the same concept for mobility + strength remains. these muscles i have not used in the way prescribed, ever. which is why my anterior muscles (FL, HBP, RC, for example) have all been progressions that show some degree of steady progress if it be in ROM, tempo, no momentum of finally, proper execution.(and even there i am extremely doubtful because i haven't been evaluated by a certified coach visually) 

this is why I also find SL/PE1 so challenging, on the other hand have made a worlds of improvement since so much as beginning GST. comparing my form check in Dec to my current ROM is amazing....but not upto mastery standard. 

I think this is what I am finding to be so frustrating for everyone: coaches standard. when in reality it's our own lack of patience or lack of humility in asking "the right questions" like "what am i not doing properly?" 

I've repeated the first week of SL/PE1 to get it upto par at least 4-6 times and i'll be honest, it is frustrating. despite that, there has been progress. FL iM, MN iM and SLS PE's + iM's have been giving me much more control over my hips than i have ever experienced...

if you think you are experiencing an anatomy issue, consult your health professional. if you think it is a performance issue, post a video. not much else can be done but explore what we can contribute to change the problem. 

I say this because suddenly out of nowhere, my swivel hip ROM dropped 4 inches closer to the ground. out-of-nowhere. so just keep moving and keep learning it, literally, is all you can do.

KeilaniG said:

I say this because suddenly out of nowhere, my swivel hip ROM dropped 4 inches closer to the ground. out-of-nowhere. so just keep moving and keep learning it, literally, is all you can do.

Good to hear something was able to finally click for you with this movement. I will continue plugging away at it and keep experimenting with a variety of drills, rolling, etc. ... and hopefully will experience the same.

- Chris

in my case i really think it has alot to do with my very tight hip flexor muscles which kip my hip to the front.

my rom increases a bit if i concentrate on tucking my hip in. anyone else who recognized this connection?

Maybe a GB athlete or someone equally qualified could help us figure it out

Ewe, where did you feel the stretch the most when you loaded your knee? I also have trouble with this particular iM element and I have a very hard time figuring out which parts of my anatomy are limiting my ROM/progress (I'm usually pretty good at identifying my weak - or should I say tight - links when it comes to flexibility and mobility).

Hahaha, yeah, I guess you're right... I'm going to give it a go anyway.

I like it.

First I experimented with loading the knee of the internally rotated leg: I lowered the knee to its unassisted end ROM, keeping both glutes on the floor. Then I put my hand (holding a dumbbell) on top of the knee, so I could gradually increase the load.

I also loaded the hip of the internally rotated leg. I started with putting both knees on the floor. This forced me to lift the glute and extend the hip of the internally rotated leg. I then put the foot of the externally rotated leg (the 'lower leg') on top of the knee of my internally rotated leg, to keep it in place. Then I loaded the extended hip of the internally rotated leg with the dumbbell and allowed my hip to gradually sink back towards the floor under the load of the dumbbell, while holding my knees on the floor.

That probably sounds a little confusing but it's really straightforward and I have a feeling it really helped loosening up my hips!

Contracting-relaxing against the load works well.

For anyone planning to try this: make sure that you increase the load gradually, don't just go throwing dumbbells on your joints!!