Started by Daniel Burnham, July 27, 2013 · 85 Replies · 30,101 Views
alex87 said:i want your manna...i'm very jealous!
one day maybe in 20XX i'll achieve my manna.
i will be the first ex-football player with manna!
I'll be the first guy to achieve a Manna WHILE being a football player! 
I'm still 14, so I hope I get one by the time I graduate
Gosh, Daniel, that's really cool! That's unbelievable strength
Daniel Burnham said:.....I actually wouldn't consider Ag walks to be direct assistance work to manna......With that said it takes a great deal of shoulder extension to push into it...
See, AG walks are pretty much the only thing I can think of that works the same muscles, at the same angle, with the force going in the same direction.
Or maybe victorian.... 
In theory AG walks should help because they work the long head of triceps which strength is crucial for V-sit/manna because the long head of tricep is the major muscle for extending the shoulder. AG walks also seem to help with mobility(at least up to a certain point).
Wide-arm pull-ups work most of the same muscles as a cross, but you're unlikely to learn a cross just from doing a bunch of those.
Joshua Slocum said:Wide-arm pull-ups work most of the same muscles as a cross, but you're unlikely to learn a cross just from doing a bunch of those.
Wasn't the point. You could consider wide-arm pull-ups assistance work for the cross though. But they are apples to oranges - bent arm to straight arm work. The focus should be on specific work to learn the skill.
Bipocni said:See, AG walks are pretty much the only thing I can think of that works the same muscles, at the same angle, with the force going in the same direction.
Or maybe victorian....
Don't worry these exercises will be made obvious in future foundation volumes which will provide the guide to this skill. It is not my intention here to provide a lost of progressions and mobility drills for the manna. Coach has already done a great job of that. Work on where you are now and you will not only learn what is needed but also be ready for it.
Samui said:In theory AG walks should help because they work the long head of triceps which strength is crucial for V-sit/manna because the long head of tricep is the major muscle for extending the shoulder. AG walks also seem to help with mobility(at least up to a certain point).
Ag walks certainly may certainly have their place in a properly prepared athlete's training schedule. However it's use as a manna assistance exercise is limited. Your time would be better spend working on the manna directly. I define assistance exercises as exercises that increase strength or mobility of a sticking point of the main movement. So basically something that attacks a certain specific part of the manna. These are often included as mobility exercises in the foundation series.
If you have a Manna, then it seems you are on F3 or F4? If so, then how did you get them before they were released?
Aadil Siddiqi said:If you have a Manna, then it seems you are on F3 or F4? If so, then how did you get them before they were released?
Attending a seminar.
On the ones I've been to there's been some info even on press HS and ring work. It's really worth it to get to a seminar.
Samui said:Wasn't the point. You could consider wide-arm pull-ups assistance work for the cross though. But they are apples to oranges - bent arm to straight arm work. The focus should be on specific work to learn the skill.
It was precisely the point. The fact that an exercise works the muscles used in a static hold does not necessarily mean that it is an effective way to train for that static hold. The fact that Ag-walks use the long head of the triceps does not mean they're an effective way to train for a manna.
Its quite unlikely I'll be able to attend a seminar anytime soon 
Don't worry Aadil, foundation 1 and 2 will keep us busy for a while 
Yeah, I know. And F3 will be out soon I believe
Aadil Siddiqi said:Yeah, I know. And F3 will be out soon I believe
I have faith!
Daniel Burnham said:Don't worry these exercises will be made obvious in future foundation volumes which will provide the guide to this skill. It is not my intention here to provide a lost of progressions and mobility drills for the manna. Coach has already done a great job of that. Work on where you are now and you will not only learn what is needed but also be ready for it.
I guess I'm going to have to get to a seminar one of these days...
Very impressive Daniel.
yeah, that looks pretty rad. first time i saw a manna was similar to when i saw my first undergrip dislocate " 
"
knowing i'm following a program that'll lead me to it in an overprepared, injury free, paved fashion is seriously incentive to work hard and enjoy the preparation no matter how much my ego wants to see these exercises as "sissy" or "easy" they are anything but.
Daniel, is it true what they say about the Tricep cramps?
KeilaniG said:
Daniel, is it true what they say about the Tricep cramps?
Yes
Daniel - Sorry to ask this. Not doubting this. Just in awe of the progress you've made.
You say you started last summer so its only 12 months/ 1 year but you started with 21 and are now 23 (2 years?). How long if you can clear that ambiguity please?
How would you summarize the following in a clearer Timeline:
- Total time with GB Stuff - 12/ 24 months
- Time with - BtGB and time with Foundations (which ones F1, F2.. etc)
- Some details of how CONSISTENTLY you trained ( 3, 4, 5 days etc?)
- Seminar boosters
- Did you have any fall outs/ lack of discipline in the above time period?
I ask because a lot of times these goals seem so far off and we lose patience in the slow consistent work that it takes. It would help to know exactly where you started, how long you did, what you did and went through ( in terms of steps) and where you are now (visible.. is this F3/F4).
So all F1 starters like us can take some genuine inspiration and see the EXACT EFFORT & TIME you committed to get here.
Daniel Burnham said:I should also mention that I had never done gymnastics prior to GB training. In fact last summer is the first time I ever went into a gymnastic gym to train. I started at 21 yrs old and am 23 now.
Bipocni said:Sorry to pepper you with questions, it's just there aren't that many people out there who have actually accomplished a manna. Very impressive, especially for only two years of work.
Aadil Siddiqi said:If you have a Manna, then it seems you are on F3 or F4? If so, then how did you get them before they were released?
Christian said:Attending a seminar.
On the ones I've been to there's been some info even on press HS and ring work. It's really worth it to get to a seminar.
crashnburn said:Daniel - Sorry to ask this. Not doubting this. Just in awe of the progress you've made.
You say you started last summer so its only 12 months/ 1 year but you started with 21 and are now 23 (2 years?). How long if you can clear that ambiguity please?
How would you summarize the following in a clearer Timeline:
- Total time with GB Stuff - 12/ 24 months
- Time with - BtGB and time with Foundations (which ones F1, F2.. etc)
- Some details of how CONSISTENTLY you trained ( 3, 4, 5 days etc?)
- Seminar boosters
- Did you have any fall outs/ lack of discipline in the above time period?
I ask because a lot of times these goals seem so far off and we lose patience in the slow consistent work that it takes. It would help to know exactly where you started, how long you did, what you did and went through ( in terms of steps) and where you are now (visible.. is this F3/F4).
So all F1 starters like us can take some genuine inspiration
What's the problem? Work hard and follow the steps. Daniel did and he's already starting to reap the rewards. Is it really difficult to put in day to day work when you can see from the demo vids and people like him, that even the one quite talented people have come out and said can't be learnt as an adult totally can?
What else could you possibly need? And how will the information you asked for help you get there?
Ok. So here is a roughly accurate timeline.
About 4 years ago I started working out for the first time. Before that I had never done any strength training and only played sports.
About 3 years ago I played on rings for the first time at a crossfit gym my friend worked at. Also I saw a planche on YouTube.
I bought my xtreme rings and btgb three years ago and starting adding some of the work to my weight lifting routine.
At some point after this I starred phasing out the weights and moving into more bodyweight stuff.
I worked on a Kilroy like template that was actually closer to foundation series for about 9 months before going to my first seminar which was last year in September.
I have been working on foundation for almost a year now. And went to the seminar in may.
I also started working gymnastic skills at a gym I go to less than a year ago and compete in naigc.
Time dedicated to working out started at 3 days a week for an hour and very gradually built up volume. Recently I have been working out 6 days a week. I have had very few lapses only due to illness and vacationing. Generally when I travel I go to a crossfit gym and get some basic strength in.
Josh can tell you that there is a world of difference between when he saw me a little over two years ago and now.
You make me excited for my training. Thank you
First and foremost. Thank you for the amazing outline. More than what I asked for and VERY VERY insightful.
I've been a hard gainer for a long time. I was this non-athletic academics focused kid in school. I think the best foundations are built when we are young. e.g. Friends who used to play soccer etc and run etc had the inherent advantage.
When I first worked out during high school/ college years people would pack on and I had a tough time gaining. I was super skinny then and needed to pack on some muscle. I lost it as soon as I stopped working out.
My best gains happened in Grad School where I followed a whole different workout, schedule, lifestyle, diet, etc.
So, it was rather weird that I packed on muscle and progressed MORE, much later as per age.
Daniel Burnham said:Ok. So here is a roughly accurate timeline.
About 4 years ago I started working out for the first time. Before that I had never done any strength training and only played sports.
About 3 years ago I played on rings for the first time at a crossfit gym my friend worked at. Also I saw a planche on YouTube.
I bought my xtreme rings and btgb three years ago and starting adding some of the work to my weight lifting routine.
At some point after this I starred phasing out the weights and moving into more bodyweight stuff.
I worked on a Kilroy like template that was actually closer to foundation series for about 9 months before going to my first seminar which was last year in September.
I have been working on foundation for almost a year now. And went to the seminar in may.
I also started working gymnastic skills at a gym I go to less than a year ago and compete in naigc.
Time dedicated to working out started at 3 days a week for an hour and very gradually built up volume. Recently I have been working out 6 days a week. I have had very few lapses only due to illness and vacationing. Generally when I travel I go to a crossfit gym and get some basic strength in.
Very interesting. I just started F1 very gradually as last 2/3 years I've had a bad run of injuries (Ski Accident) and haven't gone back to the slopes since.
The thing that's nagging me in my mind - A lot of my good clothes (suits, formal & party shirts) etc have become loose as the only thing I've been able to do is "light and relaxing floor yoga" for stretching.
I know that F1 and its Mobility components are going to build some great Foundations and Joint Strength.
My concern is how/ if I can leverage some of the exercises in KillRoy towards packing on some muscle. (As I said, I am a slow gainer so my concern is.. I keep doing F1, it might be a LONG while before I GAIN decent muscle to FIT better in my clothes).
Could I / Should I club some KillRoy / Other stuff on top/ on the side of F1?
If I post current measurements and my target 1 and target 2 measurements maybe you could give a better idea?
crashnburn:
The muscle you put on is a function of genetics, diet, and exercise. From reading your post I believe you probably just don't eat to support the added muscle you want. Re-visit that and I believe you can make great gains following the Foundation series.
I agree with Dan. It sounds like you would benefit most from making sure you're getting enough good food.