kipping and gymnastic skills

[Alessandro Mainente]

what is your opinion about the kipping and the swinging motion for GST exercises like muscle up, handstand push up, dips, pull ups etc?

 

i'm watching now the crossfit games and i'm always searching a reason of why they have to do these type of movements with kipping?

Why they not insert regular pull up, handstand push up etc instead of kipping movements?

 

 

[Daniel Burnham]

The reason is because they are trying to reach numbers and it is easier to hit these if you use momentum.

Also crossfit workouts use relatively little strength so the focus is more on anaerobic conditioning. Occasionally balance and aerobic peak their head in but by and large the focus is not strength.

I have actually found, and this matches the literature, that the people I have trained get much better when they are stronger and the metabolic conditioning takes only a few weeks to plateau in.

[Joshua Slocum]

Kipping demonstrates weakness. Do it right or not at all.  

[Brian Li]

Crossfit focuses on quantity than quality. 

[Alessandro Mainente]

i think that kipping movements are feasible in less time for the average of the people.

i can understand that they have to reach a certain number of reps, that X reps in 1 minutes is better then X/2 reps in 1 minutes. so you are stronger compared to another people in what? in the kipping technique?

muscle ups is a unique movement that let the strength to increase in the small portion of the transition? what is the reason to do it with kipping without perform the transition?

in my mind this not make sense.

[Brian Li]

That's why Crossfit is bad for actual strength development and conditioning in my opinion.

[Niklas Slotte]

I saw kipping rope climbs today, wasn't expecting that. Still, I looked at a few heats and those who completed the "Legless" event didn't have to resort to kipping. 

[Coach Sommer]

I saw kipping rope climbs today ...

 

[Karl Kallio]

I saw kipping rope climbs today, wasn't expecting that.

 

Is there anyway to post a video of that?  ...I am having difficulty imagining that particular combination

 

oh wait found that...at about 1 min in.

 

[Deins Drengers]

I do kipping sprints and kipping food chews ( helps me to get fast reps on chewing my veggies )

[Alessandro Mainente]

Niklas i'm astonished

watch at 16 seconds

 

http://youtu.be/vwnQNM7ynWY

[Alexander Svensson]

I have nothing against crossfit and their kipping, but I find this to be really funny 

[Briac Roquet]

Hahahaha, thank you so much for this video, gohei_ ! 

[Brian Li]

I have nothing against crossfit and their kipping, but I find this to be really funny 

LOL

[Blairbob]

 I didn't get to see the kipping rope climbs but I heard it was just the gals that tried doing them. I think what happened was they got so fatigued they needed that extra kick to give them some energy up. If you do legless rope climbs where you swing the legs, you are sort of kipping.  

 

 The argument for kipping regarding CrossFit has to do with making the pullups metabolic rather than strength focus and coordinating hip to shoulder power transfer. Load up hip/spine and impart that power through the shoulders in a whip like movement. Examples to other sport motions such as throwing or weight transfer activities such as golf, baseball, judo, striking, etc.

However, we do know that SLAP injuries are common in CF. My friend a chiropractor in Texas says CrossFit adds to his revenue weekly. Kipping and excessive kipping PU/MU may lead to danger in CF participants, especially those who are weak and/or poor mobility to being with. And then of course stupid movements like SumoDeadLiftHighPull, high rep Olympic Lifting movements done by individuals with lacking mobility or technique especially under metabolic fatigue.

You can yimmer and yaw all day long ago but that's the focus. You'll also see that sometimes they program higher rep numbers of pullups since kipping is allowed (100-150 in RX'd volume ). During some programming, you'll see strict, L, or weighted pullups being RX'd. 

 

 Kipping pullups are a much contended thing to many gyms. A lot of boxes nowadays focus on obtaining 10 strict pullups before the cyclic ( arch>hollow ) kip is allowed or the Butterfly kip ( which many proponents dislike ).

 " Also crossfit workouts use relatively little strength so the focus is more on anaerobic conditioning. Occasionally balance and aerobic peak their head in but by and large the focus is not strength. "

 

DL 405lbs x 5 for 3 sets. Ugly looking pistols with 53 pounds. Flip a tire like object of 490lbs across a field. Clean&Jerk 345lbs. Run with a 100lb log for 600 yards. Sled drag 310lbs for 66 yards. Light snatches and Push Jerks. 10 legless rope climbs of 10' ( which is equal to about 5-8

Yep, no strength at all was used. In fact, it's just barely harder than doing cartwheels I'm sure. They might as well have been doing a CF BW WOD like "Cindy" of 5 pullups, 10 pushups, and 20 air squats.

While it's not PowerLifting strength or Elite StrongMan or OlympicLifting there is a strength focus when the competitors can DL nearly 2.5-3x their BW and have Olympic Lifts that would qualify them to USA WL Nationals ( though we are roughly 20th in the world in that sport ). Their use of lifting odd heavy objects makes it Mini-Strongman/StrongMan Jr ( which has also created a demand for "Light SM weight categories" ) besides possibly being a feeder for USA Weightlifting and a sport for many ex collegiate female gymnasts ( though I doubt many MAG gymnasts will venture into it into later ages of their ELITE careers unless they quit gymnastics roughly as they get hit the JH/HS age and either grow too big or fall into other sports and activities ).

 

That being said, I proposed and would like to see them add a Ring Strength event to their Games. We'd probably only see A&B skills or possibly using adjusted skill values more like the old JO skill values than FIG values. 

Their handstand walks were still pretty atrocious looking though some were able to do most of the 90' without stopping. Then again, 6 or 7 of the 45 women were collegiate/national gymnasts. Metabolic fatigue and lacking HS technique and shoulder flexibility.
 

[Mark Collins]

I wish I had Elizabeth Akinwale's strength. A 405 pound deadlift, 235 pound clean and jerk and she can handstand walk!

Most of the athletes at the Crossfit games that use kipping in the competition train strict pull ups. They are usually very strong in the strict pull up.

I view the kipping pull up and strict as similar but two different movements. Just as I view a push jerk and strict overhead press as similar yet different. How many people say an olympic lifter is cheating by using momentum to get the weight overhead? Is an olympic weightlifter weaker using less absolute strength than a bodybuilder who sits down and does a slow strict overhead press?

I think instead of bagging Crossfitters we need to be the forum they go to for advice on how to get gymnastic strength. You can bet that there will be thousands of Crossfitters now wanting to improve their rope climbs without using the legs. If they come to this forum and get a hostile reception they will go elsewhere.

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

That is a good and important point to make Mark - tone and inclusiveness is crucial.

Unfortunately I have reached my quota of positive votes for the day.

 

[edit] got you today