Flag Shoulder Pain

[CaptCollins]

The last month or two ive been working up to the human flag on a ladder (it's a lot easier than I thought it would be). Last week I had some pain in my right shoulder when it was the bottom arm. I ignored it for way too long and it bothered me for a couple days. I went back to the ladder and couldnt even hold myself up it hurt so much. I gave it some time to heal and ive started doing rotator cuff exercises because I think its due to a weak inner shoulder. (my shoulders have started clicking more and more over the years). I went back today to try and it was fine long enough to work the exercise. The moment I felt the slightest pain I stopped. So I guess my question is, does anyone know what the pain might be and will working my inner shoulder muscles hopefully fix it? I think I may have just jumped into the exercise a little fast without having the proper strength. I come from a parkour background and am getting into pole fitness so I absolutely need to take care of my shoulders and am really worried. Any opinions are apprieciated!

Thanks!

[Joshua Slocum]

If you want to know what the pain is, see someone with professional medical knowledge in person. Most likely, you injured a muscle or tendon.

Jumping into difficult moves is an easy way to get hurt. That's why it's always a good idea to follow progressions

[Connor Davies]

Anyone know good methods of preparing the shoulders before human flags?  All I can think of is one arm bar hangs and one arm handstands...

 

#in b4 F1

[Jon Douglas]

I've been doing 3x30 sets of side lever hangs past week or two-- hands in correct position, elbows locked and hang/support with the intent of focusing on keeping bottom shoulder fully elevated and your body in line. No swinging and no relaxing the bottom arm/shoulder. Def much more comfortable on ladder/stall bars, due to being able to set up while standing on a lower rung.

I've found that just a weeks' work on them has really helped my weaker side adjust to the co-ordination. It's a gentle step, but going well. I'm planning to stick with this through wk 4 (currently in 3/4), then cautiously approach an inverted  same thing, hold at top of side lever pull instead of bottom. That's all from Josh Slocum's input.

 

I feel these will benefit me more at this point because the jump to tuck levers does nothing to correct my (rapidly disappearing) imbalance in shoulder coordination/mobility/flexibility which made it uncomfortable and weaker on my left side (right hand down). That said, I'll be dropping this work in favour of F3 the day it comes, and thanks to F2 I am very comfortable with the straight body aspect

[CaptCollins]

The thing is ive been doing handstand work for years and can quite easily hold a one handed handstand agaisnt a wall. So apparently they dont do much in prepping for the flag. I think the shift in angle drastically changes the pressure it puts on your shoulder. Charms prep work sounds a lot more useful. The pain in my shoulder is rapidly disappearing and im back to working it, although extremely carefully. Stopping at the first sign of pain. Im not sure if those rehab shoulder exercises are helping the injury at all but my shoulders have never felt better.

[Alessandro Mainente]

pain in the shoulders with the particular shoulders angle as in the flag could be associated to a rotator cuff problems with long head bicep involvement. I has something similar, the fact that i was negative over all the external rotators muscles was a proof about that.

to have some reasonable feedback you can try to do a particular test that involves bodybuilder pose. Search for double biceps pose. then try to do it manitaining the elbows flexion at 90° and the forearms verticale. the elbows must be on the same line as shoulders and neck.

if there is a bicep involvement this test will be positive and you feel some pain in the shoulder. if not consider the idea to perform a MRI.

[CaptCollins]

Now that was the kind of answer I was looking for. Thanks a lot Alex!

[Oleksandr Popov]

When i do side lever, my right shoulder clicks when arm in bottom position, but without pain. This started after I pulled shoulder. This temporary or permanently? How to get rid of this? Sorry for bad English 

[Cole Dano]

When i do side lever, my right shoulder clicks when arm in bottom position, but without pain. This started after I pulled shoulder. This temporary or permanently? How to get rid of this? Sorry for bad English 

See Joshua's reply above.

[Jon Douglas]

Wow, bit of a blast from the past. Pre-F3

In retrospect, I now have a strong side lever, and highly recommend wall runs. When I started getting nice long sets, I found that my static SL holds improved almost concurrently. One arm hangs less so; it's a funny feeling to push/pull from your shoulder, more active than I thought it was at the time. More emphasis on the pulling on the way up, pressing on the way down

[John Koliopoulos]

Go slow on Human Flags. It is not that difficult so I can understand why you just jumped into it. Its not like planche where in the beginning you have absolutely no chance of holding it whatsoever.

 

Also avoid too much volume in the beginning. After training Foundation quite a bit, I have found that working one hard session a week brings more gains than two or three... Getting proper shoulder positioning is difficult at first. If you have the sensation that you are hanging on your tendons only, stop. I like to think about actively pushing the supporting arm inward to maintain proper line during Flag Pulls.

 

Another important point. Keep the upper arm absolutely straight at all times. Even slightly bent is very counterproductive. Be diligent.

 

I have always had a crappy flag, now approx two years later I can easily hold it. The hard part is doing full ROM raises. That is waaaay harder than doing statics..

 

If I encountered pain in the shoulders, it was mostly due to not elevating the lower shoulder properly.

I definitely agree with above, HS wall runs can help with that issue for sure.

[Oleksandr Popov]

Thank you!

[Alessandro Mainente]

Very low shoulders mobility is the biggest obstacle for side lever development due to the rotation component of the upper arm in the shoulders capsule. As I became proficient with IM's of HBP and H1 I recovered completely from by previous shoulders problems due to premature approach on specific side lever element.

[Eddie Stelling]

I can't stress enough to take your time with this movement. I tore my labrum and my rotator cuff (in one fatal blow) in the pulling arm shoulder when rushing into the side lever, and I was pretty strong with about 1.5-2 yrs of GST under my belt.....

"If you have the sensation that you are hanging on your tendons only, stop."

The above quote is spot on. Another thing that I have noticed that correlates to the hanging sensation J0X is talking about, is grip strength on the pulling arm, for me at least. I think this goes unnoticed and wears the shoulder bad if you don't build slowly and prepare. You need a STRONG grip in order to not bend your elbow and have an active pull with the top arm to keep your shoulder girdle extended and stable. When your grip goes (or you don't have it to begin with and you are hanging by a thread already) you start doing weird things with the shoulder and the elbow, which is not good because your body weight is pulling on the connective tissue in your shoulder. The progressions in foundation are excellent. I am now pressing to a low straight body flag with ease each side, but spending ample time here until grip and pulling strength don't waiver at all for all reps/sets. Single arm hangs helped my grip strength to overcome. I would buy foundation if you don't have it, SL/SE1-3 are where it's at, as well as listen to all the advice above.

[Oleksandr Popov]

thanks for the advice!