Started by Edgaron, July 19, 2013 · 24 Replies · 5,725 Views
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyyHsb6WGgY
A crap load of meat, egg, dairy and saturated fat hate. Pretty much relating a bunch of diseases to meat or saturated fat consumption and proposing a vegan diet.
I'm a non vegan myself but it was quite entertaining to watch even though it's quite a long video.
Interesting...Interesting...
Haven't watched this yet as I'm getting together a crapton of frozen greens swimming in butter and coconut oil, some cottage cheese, and sweet potato. I would watch it later, but I'll be having at least 2 grass fed burgers sans bun, with more greens and various other veggies 
. I'll post again after I watch the video from my hospital room. 
I've eaten nearly 2 pounds meat today myself... Felt very carnivorious today for some reason.
Honestly, I like to keep my mind open to new ideas and veganism is one thing I've never tried before, I wonder what a week or so without meat/dairy/eggs/fish would feel like hehe. Or a day at least.
I am in the process of watching and checking all his sources...but first I need to read these 2 articles my professor (an MD) lead me to after siting a new study linked red meat to increased risk of death in those with colorectal cancer.... After downloading the studies...it looks like they are crap studies.
An attending physician getting nutrition knowledge off of yahoo news....She doesn't get her knowledge for the rest of her practice from yahoo news...so why nutrition knowledge!!!
Prometheus said:I am in the process of watching and checking all his sources...but first I need to read these 2 articles my professor (an MD) lead me to after siting a new study linked red meat to increased risk of death in those with colorectal cancer.... After downloading the studies...it looks like they are crap studies.
An attending physician getting nutrition knowledge off of yahoo news....She doesn't get her knowledge for the rest of her practice from yahoo news...so why nutrition knowledge!!!
Didn't studies that bash red meat used test subjects who had little to no fiber intake? That's what I remember reading somewhere.
EDIT: @TANSTAAFL
I share your pain, just had 5 eggs with butter hour ago and going to feast tommorow on goat meat and beef due my village celebrating a saint and folklore music.
I watched a bit of this, I'll see the rest of it tomorrow, seems good.
I'm not scientifically literate in this field, is there evidence to the contrary then (i.e. that red meat's fine)? If such evidence exists, he will surely have left it out. I'm sure there is.
Prometheus said:I am in the process of watching and checking all his sources...but first I need to read these 2 articles my professor (an MD) lead me to after siting a new study linked red meat to increased risk of death in those with colorectal cancer.... After downloading the studies...it looks like they are crap studies.
An attending physician getting nutrition knowledge off of yahoo news....She doesn't get her knowledge for the rest of her practice from yahoo news...so why nutrition knowledge!!!
Keep us updated with what you find
Hercules said:I watched a bit of this, I'll see the rest of it tomorrow, seems good.
I'm not scientifically literate in this field, is there evidence to the contrary then (i.e. that red meat's fine)? If such evidence exists, he will surely have left it out. I'm sure there is.
Yeah, the whole paleo community. The video wasn't about debunking paleo anyway. But maybe he'll make an attempt later on hehe it's quite entertaining to watch the paleo and vegan communities ''fight''.
Domz said:If you are not willing to consider the substantial weight of just the sheer number of referenced articles (there must be +1000), and their quality, in the videos you are being close minded.
Err... Yeah nevermind.
This is where we confuse people who are experts vs dogma. There needs to be much better studies done before we can conclude anything. Both Paleo and vegan need some fine tuning in the end.
I enjoy the fact that he claims that natural foods and exercise can prevent a bunch loads of problems. Screw the medical industry (no offence), but then I definitely didn't enjoy the saturated fat animal meat talk.
Thanks for sharing, very interesting.
Edit: Sorry, wasn't hating on him, he is very interesting and he actually uses research to back up further research.
Domz said:Nevermind what? I'm just saying that if you don't at least entertain what the evidence says, then you are limiting yourself. I'm not saying you should be vegan or not. This applies to anything in life.
Your point about much better studies doesn't really resonate with me here because the author quotes a hundreds of studies from reputable journals. The evidence is there. I'm NOT saying there does not need to be more research that builds upon what is currently known and uses stronger models to advance the field, but that goes for any field of research.
There's a difference between being closed minded and just knowing when you see junk laid out in front of you. Studies are a great guide. But when experience proves otherwise, it's time to drop the dogma. I've done both vegan and paleo and everything in between. I can tell you from experience, the claims either fail or are done poorly. That's my point. It doesn't make you closed minded to admit that what you're seeing is crap.
There's only one thing we can say for sure with the evidence we have:
You should probably be eating MUCH more plant matter (including fungi like yeast and mushrooms, though that is all just plant matter to me. Screw kingdoms!) than you are, and you should be physically active on a regular basis.
Reaching slightly, but within scientific evidence and reason, for health purposes you are better off having shorter workouts that occur multiple times per day.
We don't have any good evidence at all about whether red meat still raises disease risk factors when you are getting all these plants, because this has never been studied.
For all we know, the real problem has been the removal of so much plant matter. Personally, I think this is the more likely case.
Domz said:I agree. Being able to think critically and be able to identify crap is good. So you're saying that this website, which is funded by donation (read: no commercial interest), which only uses evidence based on peer reviewed journal articles by a doctor who is not in the pocket of industry, and that provides this information for free is crap?
I would actually like to see a similar website extolling the benefits of eating meat- i.e one that is not sponsored by industry lobbyist/commercial interest. I've yet to come across that. Anyone know of comparative studies between vegans, vegetarians, and omnivores, and SAD diets, etc that show no difference or benefit of omnivore diet? I'm all ears.
I can almost guarantee that a study like that, done well without any cheating or flaws, will never happen.
Joshua Naterman said:There's only one thing we can say for sure with the evidence we have:
You should probably be eating MUCH more plant matter (including fungi like yeast and mushrooms, though that is all just plant matter to me. Screw kingdoms!) than you are, and you should be physically active on a regular basis.
Reaching slightly, but within scientific evidence and reason, for health purposes you are better off having shorter workouts that occur multiple times per day.
We don't have any good evidence at all about whether red meat still raises disease risk factors when you are getting all these plants, because this has never been studied.
For all we know, the real problem has been the removal of so much plant matter. Personally, I think this is the more likely case.
That's totally what I took away from that video... Most of what he said was about the benefits of eating plants. No one says you can't get that benefit whilst still eating meat - just make sure you aren't skimping on the veges!
Joshua Naterman said:There's only one thing we can say for sure with the evidence we have:
You should probably be eating MUCH more plant matter (including fungi like yeast and mushrooms, though that is all just plant matter to me. Screw kingdoms!) than you are, and you should be physically active on a regular basis.
Reaching slightly, but within scientific evidence and reason, for health purposes you are better off having shorter workouts that occur multiple times per day.
We don't have any good evidence at all about whether red meat still raises disease risk factors when you are getting all these plants, because this has never been studied.
For all we know, the real problem has been the removal of so much plant matter. Personally, I think this is the more likely case.
Just noticed this and I can't agree more. Poliquin always jokes, if you lock up every nutritionist, dietician, trainer, ect in the world and don't let them out until they agree on one thing, it will be that no one eats enough vegetables. This seems to be where the issues in these studies come from. Not the inclusion of meat but the lack of vegetation. I don't have any evidence to back it because there isn't any yet, but I would be willing to bet a lot of money that Joshua is absolutely correct here.
Alex Chubb said:Just noticed this and I can't agree more. Poliquin always jokes, if you lock up every nutritionist, dietician, trainer, ect in the world and don't let them out until they agree on one thing, it will be that no one eats enough vegetables. This seems to be where the issues in these studies come from. Not the inclusion of meat but the lack of vegetation. I don't have any evidence to back it because there isn't any yet, but I would be willing to bet a lot of money that Joshua is absolutely correct here.
The more I hear, read and see on the subject on nutrition the more it is becoming the same thing repeated over and over - "I cannot get enough vegetables".
Kelly Starrett has an online series called 'Genetic Potential TV' and in the first 5 episodes he has guests from MMA fighters to powerlifters to ultra marathon runners and when he asks about nutrition they all say they eat vegetables non stop. That, along with what Josh says here at GB, really hammered it home for me.
Joel Tomkins said:The more I hear, read and see on the subject on nutrition the more it is becoming the same thing repeated over and over - "I cannot get enough vegetables".
Kelly Starrett has an online series called 'Genetic Potential TV' and in the first 5 episodes he has guests from MMA fighters to powerlifters to ultra marathon runners and when he asks about nutrition they all say they eat vegetables non stop. That, along with what Josh says here at GB, really hammered it home for me.
It's good to read it over and over again. I know personally, I need to eat more. Always can use another kick in the butt to do just that. I am going to check out that series. Thanks!
No worries. It's not the best show, in fact a couple of episodes have been pretty boring (and it's all kind of repetitive as stated above). The one with Forest Griffin (UFC fighter) is probably my favourite.
Joshua Naterman said:(...) Screw kingdoms! (...)
Argh! Now Cory must report you to the NSA! 
(...) Screw kingdoms! (...)
Now I get curious...
How much plant matter do you guys here take in on a daily basis?
My Japanese teacher had a hard time believing me when I told him I hit at least 1kg per day. (We were talking about food budgets on class).
I am getting 4-5 lbs most days now. Best money I have ever spent.
I sure ain't gonna compromise on my veggies! 
Saw a video of his yesterday which explained the study that showed the effect of DNA damaging meat compounds or whatever effect eaten alone vs with plants. The effect diminished considerably if the meat was eaten with plants. That's just one apect, though.
The reason I hate and doubt the vegan community is because of all the bullshit supplements they're selling. Man, half of the vegan websites have an add which says ''Took your B12 today or did the lack of it made you forget?''. Geez, if their diet is so good and complete, why the hell do we need to supplement it...
Domz said:Ya, don't read commercial vegan/veg websites, they're full of just as much crap as other sites peddling their products.
With regards to your B12 issue, B12 is dirt cheap... and to answer your last statement (quoted from another thread):
The argument about nutritional deficits in strict vegetarians/vegans is inappropriate if you are referring to B12 deficits. Before the time of modern society B12 was sourced from streams and groundwater and wherever else the microbes that produce B12 are hanging out (on plant matter). With the advent of public sanitation, our water is safer to drink but there is no B12 in it, so vegans need to supplement. This supplementation is, therefore not indicative of something wrong in the vegan diet but a consideration of living in contemporary society.
In other words, there is no poop in our water.
I'm not saying that vegans don't get all the nutrients or whatever, I'm pretty darn sure the nature is smarter than that and you proved it. I'm just exposing the hype in the websites. It's the same wherever you go, though.