Started by Markyz, July 5, 2013 · 42 Replies · 15,905 Views
Hi everyone,
I been working on the Manna for almost 1 year, and I recently heard the Manna requires good shoulder flexibility. I always knew shoulder flexibility is a must for the High Manna, but what about the normal/horizontal Manna? If so, If can anyone post a topic or link for shoulder stretches/exercises, I would greatly appreciate it 
Well simply consider the angle your arms are in and I think it's quite obvious you need good shoulder mobility. German hangs will give you the passive flexibility there, BL will give you ability to move one direction but you still need to work on pushing in that rom which is essentially a cornerstone of manna work. (Get it? cornerstone, support... 
Didn't even realise before I wrote it)
talking about flexibility is not correct at 100%. manna is a matter of active flexibility. look at the german hang and manna, the position seems to be the same but in the GH you are using the bodyweigth to elongate the chest and the last over the back extension ROM.
So back lever can help the passive flex but as bl becomes high (due to the use of false grip during it) it works against manna flexibility, you are closing the extension.
during the manna there is a certain degree of passive flexibility of these region. but the big effort comes from the active elongation of these section due to shoulders and upper back strength, but of course more shoulders. little muscles have to generate an powerful quantity of strength. think that if normally you can't elongate your muscles in german hang, how do you think is possible elongate it with muscles? of course certain degree of passive flexibility helps, bu to develop this type of strength you need specific elements and years and years of practice. you have to consider also a good stretch on the pike position and of the lower/middle back.
the good news for you is that foundation series is covering all of this aspects!
I have the specific elements like the MSH, Pike compression and the 60 second L-Sit. Only thing I can't do is the lift. It's just beginning to look like a V-Sit lol. I was thinking my shoulder flexibility/mobility was holding me back, but it seems I'm mainly lacking the core strength. Hopefully I can come close in the next year or two.
Remember to focus on pushing your hips forward, rather than lifting your feet. Mind you, a good V sit is approaching manna territory anyway.
Bipocni said:Mind you, a good V sit is approaching manna territory anyway.
I wish that were true... Vsit is much easier. It's basically an lsit with good compression.
Daniel Burnham said:I wish that were true... Vsit is much easier. It's basically an lsit with good compression.
I'm pretty sure a V-sit with a lot of the hips pushed out like one of those V-sits with legs beyond 90 degrees are approaching manna territory.
there are different V -sit forms. high compression with pike as you can see in Lucas Abner form, this form with no hips pushed forward is a limiting factor for manna. on the other side low compression but hips pushed forward as Eddie Baran is capable to do can be a solid foundation.
Daniel Burnham said:I wish that were true... Vsit is much easier. It's basically an lsit with good compression.
Mind that I said approaching. I don't really think a Vsit would help much with learning to manna. Something like AG walks would probably be a lot more helpful, even though they don't work the core much....
alex87 said:there are different V -sit forms. this form with no hips pushed forward is a limiting factor for manna. on the other side low compression but hips pushed forward as Eddie Baran is capable to do can be a solid foundation.
This is true. Basically you can compensate for lack of strength by compressing more. The hip push as you have mentioned and already know is the limiting factor for most people, which is why a good msh is necessary for the manna.
Keep in mind in following manna training you should press into it from the msh not the v-sit which is why I said the v-sit is a long way off from manna. Sure it is approaching it just as l-sit is approaching it but there is a lot of work between to two.
Btw here is a photos of me in may screwing around. I have gotten avoid deal stronger since then. I did not train v-sit much directly mind you.
There is a great deal of difference between this form and the manna. One being shoulder position. Which is why I say it is easy to get v-sit and the reason I think most stall out in manna progress. They don't understand the difference.
you hips are very forward in respect to the forearms, and you are seems to be pretty vertical!
alex87 said:you hips are very forward in respect to the forearms, and you are seems to be pretty vertical!
I thought V-sit was supposed to resemble the letter V B). Nevertheless the V-sits in this thread look pretty awesome.
Samui said:I thought V-sit was supposed to resemble the letter V B). Nevertheless the V-sits in this thread look pretty awesome.
In a perfect V sit, the legs should be vertical.
Daniel Burnham said:Btw here is a photos of me in may screwing around.
So you got a perfect V sit without even training for it? 
I trained maybe a month of lifting into it during my warmup. The focus was on manna work. It just keeps getting better now without me ever training for it anymore.
Bipocni said:Remember to focus on pushing your hips forward, rather than lifting your feet. Mind you, a good V sit is approaching manna territory anyway.
Yea no worries, I been focusing on the hip push since day one.
I'm wondering, did anyone here ever try high holds when working on the Manna? Like sitting on a few books or something higher than you can press. Maybe supported static holds can make the progress faster. 
That's a very nice V-sit you got there Daniel.
I also had a pretty nice V-sit with the hips pushed out, but with crappy compression and I didn't train for it that much either. I just messed around with L-sit raises for some days or weeks and just got it one day. Unlike you though I did not do manna training, but instead got most of the strength from FL work and some OACs that carried over to the V-sit. Those exercises train the rear delts and triceps long head heavily which are quite important in the hips pushed forward V-sit as well as manna. Incidentally, I was also able to do a good MSH and even an elevated MSH if I remembered correctly.
Here's a video of my V-sit from last year July 2012 (It's not as good as Daniel's, but I thought I'd share it anyways):
Daniel Burnham said:Btw here is a photos of me in may screwing around. I have gotten avoid deal stronger since then. I did not train v-sit much directly mind you.
image.jpg
There is a great deal of difference between this form and the manna. One being shoulder position. Which is why I say it is easy to get v-sit and the reason I think most stall out in manna progress. They don't understand the difference.
I'm interested in hearing your story and see where you're at right now! I remember reading somewhere you've only done gymnastics for 3-4 years now?
I've actually only done GST for about 2 and "competitive" gymnastics for less than a year.sse94 said:Daniel Burnham said:I'm interested in hearing your story and see where you're at right now! I remember reading somewhere you've only done gymnastics for 3-4 years now?
Daniel Burnham said:I've actually only done GST for about 2 and "competitive" gymnastics for less than a year.
That's excellent progress. People would be amazed how further you can go in just a few years with hard hard work and proper planning. You definitely have had top tier coaching 
Daniel Burnham said:Keep in mind in following manna training you should press into it from the msh not the v-sit which is why I said the v-sit is a long way off from manna. Sure it is approaching it just as l-sit is approaching it but there is a lot of work between to two.
I think a V-sit with the hips pushed forward is harder than a MSH with the same distance of hips pushed forward because straddling shortens the lever. That's why Coach recommends having a wide split and good compression to make the MSH easier for beginners.
B1214N said:I think a V-sit with the hips pushed forward is harder than a MSH with the same distance of hips pushed forward because straddling shortens the lever. That's why Coach recommends having a wide split and good compression to make the MSH easier for beginners.
Yea. It also means you don't need to focus on compression as much which makes a lot of people hunch and break the shoulder retraction needed for the manna. My picture above shows this.
If I tried to go from there to manna it would be pretty much impossible. My hands are facing forwards and I am hunched. I believe this is where a lot of people just give up on manna.
So what exactly are the scapula supposed to do during a manna? When I german hang, I tend to protract and depress in an effort to protect my tendon in my shoulders, but the stresses are in a completely different place with a manna. Simply lifting my arm behind me, I get more ROM by protracting, but I feel it more in my rear delts if I retract. So........
